Ramon Dominguez. Best jockey ever?

[Stillriledup]

I feel that a lot of people don't have the ability to determine 'all time great' until they see the 'finished product'. People have a very hard time saying that a current athlete is the best who's ever played. People need to see a complete career in order to make that statement. I'm asking if Dominguez is the best of all time. I think that as time wears on, the skill, strength, balance and smarts of riders gets higher and higher. If you go back and watch film from the 1950s, you see riders 'swinging' their legs in the stirrups back and forth. I know that this was the style in the day, but if a rider like Arcaro came out of a time machine and was transported to 2010, he wouldn't be competitive with today's riders. You don't see top riders 'swinging their feet' back and forth in today's game.

[only11]

Originally Posted by boomman

Ramon is a very good rider no doubt, as is Russell Baze, but IMHO neither one are even in the top 3 of greatest riders ever. In the group that I have witnessed for the last 30 years (not going back beyond that) Russell has the most wins, has a great work ethic and is a super guy. But as for sheer talent, Gary Stevens (in his prime before his knee injury) Pat Day and Laffit Pincay were the best 3 jocks I ever saw.

Boomer

Whoah no bailey..

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I feel that a lot of people don't have the ability to determine 'all time great' until they see the 'finished product'. People have a very hard time saying that a current athlete is the best who's ever played. People need to see a complete career in order to make that statement. I'm asking if Dominguez is the best of all time. I think that as time wears on, the skill, strength, balance and smarts of riders gets higher and higher. If you go back and watch film from the 1950s, you see riders 'swinging' their legs in the stirrups back and forth. I know that this was the style in the day, but if a rider like Arcaro came out of a time machine and was transported to 2010, he wouldn't be competitive with today's riders. You don't see top riders 'swinging their feet' back and forth in today's game.

I see English riders wasting all manner or energy sitting high in the saddle and rocking back and forth.....They still do well.

Style partners with the times

This is akin to saying that all the great high jumpers were chumps because they didn't use the Fosbury flop

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by only11

Whoah no bailey..

I agree Bailey is surely up top. The only thing he killed me with was his riding on Cigar. He made that horse work more than he should've. Towards the end he just thought Cigar was unbeatble and would keep him wide all race and make him run longer than he had too. Plus that Pacific Classic was ridiculous. Siphon was never going to win that race and through those fractions and Bailey has Cigar up with him??? Lay off Siphon and beat Dare and Go home by 3 lengths.

[cj's dad]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Alavaro Pineda was probably headed for greatness - we will never know.

I read "A day at the races" 20+ years ago; was he the guy who had his head crushed at the top of the starting gate ????

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

I see English riders wasting all manner or energy sitting high in the saddle and rocking back and forth.....They still do well.

Style partners with the times

This is akin to saying that all the great high jumpers were chumps because they didn't use the Fosbury flop

Yeah, but the best english riders have the 'down in the saddle' style, right?

Doing well and being an all time great are two different things.

[Hanover1]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Yeah, but the best english riders have the 'down in the saddle' style, right?

Doing well and being an all time great are two different things.

Hot hand (involves several factors...)+ longevity=greatness.

[aaron]

I've followed NY racing for over 35 years. I would say Cordero is the best rider I have ever seen. Steve Cauthen's short run was nothing short of remarkable. Chris Antley had as much natural talent as any jockey. Bailey was great for a lot of years.
I think Dominguez has a chance to be an all time great. He seems to have a plan every race. He never panics, he rides the inner as good as any jockey.
To be an all time great,he'll have to get some big horses,but of the jockeys riding today,it is my opinion he is the best.
I thought Bailey was a great rider before he got the big horses and hopefully Dominguez will follow his path and get big horses.

[boomman]

Originally Posted by only11

Whoah no bailey..

Not in my top 3, no......In fact as good of a rider as he obviously was, I think he was overrated a bit..........I never saw him as one of the best of all time.......

Boomer

[PhantomOnTour]

I thought English/Euro riders have that style because the ground they run on isnt level, and riding like Americans would cause them to lose balance. Notice their feet are in the stirrups practically up to the heel while American riders barely have their toes in. It doesnt look aerodynamic but I think thats the reason they ride that way.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour

I thought English/Euro riders have that style because the ground they run on isnt level, and riding like Americans would cause them to lose balance. Notice their feet are in the stirrups practically up to the heel while American riders barely have their toes in. It doesnt look aerodynamic but I think thats the reason they ride that way.

Interesting.

[Greyfox]

Bejarano is very good....someday maybe among the greats.

[eastie]

Originally Posted by aaron

I've followed NY racing for over 35 years. I would say Cordero is the best rider I have ever seen. Steve Cauthen's short run was nothing short of remarkable. Chris Antley had as much natural talent as any jockey. Bailey was great for a lot of years.
I think Dominguez has a chance to be an all time great. He seems to have a plan every race. He never panics, he rides the inner as good as any jockey.
To be an all time great,he'll have to get some big horses,but of the jockeys riding today,it is my opinion he is the best.
I thought Bailey was a great rider before he got the big horses and hopefully Dominguez will follow his path and get big horses.

really an excellent post..covering The Ant and Steve Cauthen. I think one of Dominguez's stronger assets is his ability to read the racing form. He can see the race being run before it's run and has a backup plan in case some nitwit snatches the lone speed or something ridic like that.

[Jeremy Jet]

Best ever? That's an absurd proposition.

Dominguez is an exceptionally smart rider, and that strength alone has allowed him to vault to the top of the NY colony, as he is riding against a remarkably dumb group. Essentially, he outsmarts his competition on a daily basis.

He is, however, nowhere near the athlete that Cordero or Pincay were, and would therefore have been at a big disadvantage when up against the likes of them in tight races. He also would have been disadvantaged in many cases against a brilliantly aggressive rider such as Cordero, as the latter would have seized opportunities and forced Dominguez out of his game (something that none of his current peers are capable of).

I'm willing to remain open-minded until his career winds down, but as of now, he falls well short of being "great".

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Jet

Best ever? That's an absurd proposition.

Dominguez is an exceptionally smart rider, and that strength alone has allowed him to vault to the top of the NY colony, as he is riding against a remarkably dumb group. Essentially, he outsmarts his competition on a daily basis.

He is, however, nowhere near the athlete that Cordero or Pincay were, and would therefore have been at a big disadvantage when up against the likes of them in tight races. He also would have been disadvantaged in many cases against a brilliantly aggressive rider such as Cordero, as the latter would have seized opportunities and forced Dominguez out of his game (something that none of his current peers are capable of).

I'm willing to remain open-minded until his career winds down, but as of now, he falls well short of being "great".

So, you're saying that riders in general haven't improved at all in the last 30 years?