Ramon Dominguez. Best jockey ever?

[46zilzal]

I was impressed the way he tried his best to get out of the bobbling Afleet Alex's way in that one's Preakness, after his mount bolted from left handed whipping.

[RXB]

He's a very good jockey, but "best ever" is way over the top. The Aqueduct inner meet is Triple-A ball; yeah, he's much better than David Cohen. At truly major meets and in major races, Dominguez is a solid jockey but he hasn't dominated.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by RXB

Cohen. At truly major meets and in major races, Dominguez is a solid jockey but he hasn't dominated.

He won every racing meet in NY this year. So, sorry, but he dominated.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by the little guy

He won every racing meet in NY this year. So, sorry, but he dominated.

Yes, that's true, Andy. I guess I would have to grant that he is the top jockey in NY, but I've never had the impression that it was man-vs.-boys when he is facing the best riders, which is sort of how it would have to be before I'd say "best ever" is a legitimate possibility. At the inner meet, he's obviously much the best.

[Gaelic Storm]

Last year at Saratoga, probably the best jockey colony anywhere, Ramon was clearly the top guy. There is no doubt in my mind that he is the best, day in and day out.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Take a look at his ride in the 9th race last Thursday. It was a $16K maiden claiming race and his ride was as good a ride as any rider could have ever given any horse.

yes it was. I like seeing Saez try to mimic RD in that race as well.



dominguez DOMINATED. Usually in the right place, good judgement, even with occasional inner bias where you may have several jockeys gunning for a spot he controls those races.
He doesn't hinder as many horses as just about every jockey.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by RXB

Yes, that's true, Andy. I guess I would have to grant that he is the top jockey in NY, but I've never had the impression that it was man-vs.-boys when he is facing the best riders, which is sort of how it would have to be before I'd say "best ever" is a legitimate possibility. At the inner meet, he's obviously much the best.

I hear you. " Best ever " arguments rarely mean a lot.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by the little guy

I hear you. " Best ever " arguments rarely mean a lot.

Sure they do. First time I went to Oak Tree I had heard of Shoe but learned that the best I ever say live, was running that day fresh from Chicago where he had been a contract rider for Fred W. Hooper.

Laffit "willed" horses to the wire and that rail skimming Belmont ride on Caveat was one for the ages.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by RXB

Yes, that's true, Andy. I guess I would have to grant that he is the top jockey in NY, but I've never had the impression that it was man-vs.-boys when he is facing the best riders, which is sort of how it would have to be before I'd say "best ever" is a legitimate possibility. At the inner meet, he's obviously much the best.

I think versus the very best, he simply is going to give a quality finesse ride and have a ton left in the stretch.

I agree with you that he doesn't DOMINATE the biggest races vs the best,

but he hasn't had the mounts either.

Taking such n such Big Name Trainer's second or third string for big stakes is a hard spot to stand out in.

[the little guy]

Please let the adults talk.

[46zilzal]

I rarely use the word GREAT as regards anything in racing as it is rarefied air time. It is over used without perspective.

Most, with no historical perspective of the game, save the last twenty years, could not give an educated opinion if they tried about what constitutes true greatness in this game. TOO many very good ones have been forgotten to simply jump on the current day bandwagon.

Once or twice a generation, true greatness in a rider comes along. After watching Stevens win Longacres for two years, I thought he had a shot, but for all his brilliance he was spotty.

[Robert Fischer]

Borel

sure isn't in the Best Ever conversation, but you have to give the man credit for being a big game monster in the past several years.

He helps sharpen street sense and beats a better Hard Spun in one of the few trips that didn't go to hell for HS in his prime. Spun runs a faster final quarter than his previous and Borel skims the rail and beats him with Street Sense.
A hell of a class animal, but you have to appreciate the ride.

I don't think people understand how much Borel put into that horse. He pulled off that crap in the Juvenile. and then all the know it all start raving about the "rail was golden that day".
Shit if you don't do any running and everyone else runs a completely different race with a hard pace, and you sweep up along the rail and save all the ground you SHOULD have a lot of horse.

Borel on Mine That Bird kind of took away from the Street sense legacy a little. It had to. He did for me. I look back on the events in a different perspective now. MTB certainly was not a standout horse. Probably in the top 10 of that derby field. Borel got on that horse in the morning too.

And then you see the job borel did with Rachel. Borel is probably the best at getting on a decent horse in the morning and waking them up. You don't see anyone, maybe valdivia on a rare occasion, who can move put some electricity into a horse like that in the am.

and he's clearly not as good as Ramon, but he almost makes you think if we're evaluating things correctly.

[46zilzal]

I put riders into categories here with an example of each.

WILD ones: Ycaza, Cordero, Eddie Belmonte.....always pushing the limits
Steady: they don't make mistakes and almost look routine: Bailey, Day, Prado, and many other quiet journeymen over the years.
Spotty: ride as Hall of Famer's one day, dummies the next: Stevens (as he was often reminded by Lukas), P. Val and we known why and poor old Eric Guerin who only misjudged the finish once, but couldn't pick a worse time.
Flashes in the pan: too numerous to count.

CLASSIC: Shoe, Aracaro, Longden
Money men: the Iceman, Don Pierce, Eddie D.

There are many of the younger guys who have not ridden enough who are not listed here. Alavaro Pineda was probably headed for greatness - we will never know.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Alavaro Pineda was probably headed for greatness - we will never know.

Is "Pineda" Spanish for "Pinhead"?

Sweet.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Ramon is as good a rider as I have ever seen. The professionalism he brings every day is remarkable. It's funny, I'm watching the HBO show about Bird and Magic, and I feel like Ramon brings to his job what those two legends brought to their's. He rides the inner as well as any rider could and it doesn't matter the level of quality. Take a look at his ride in the 9th race last Thursday. It was a $16K maiden claiming race and his ride was as good a ride as any rider could have ever given any horse. Nobody, and I mean nobody, would have won with that horse besides Ramon. Take a look at his ride on Goldsville in Saturday's 5th race. First, he goes to the lead, and he gets it. Then, others go, so he takes back a little on the backstretch. Then things get a little tight and as they run for home he is totally packaged behind and between horses, but he doesn't check and lose ground, he holds steady and waits, and when the slightest seem opens he busts through. He doesn't panic when horses back up in his face and steady severely, and just smoothly gathers his horses in and waits with confidence. If his mounts are empty, so be it, but if not they get their best possible chances to win at as high a percentage as any rider I have ever seen.

As for comparisons, I've seen the great riders of the last 30 years, and there have been some extremely good ones. But, I also never watched them as closely, day to day, as I watch Ramon. So, from my perspective it's not fair to say which one is necessarily better than the others. Cordero, Bailey, Stevens, McCarron, Pincay....they were tremendous riders. But Ramon is as well and watching him every day, especially through the long winter on the inner, is a pleasure and a privilege.

This is a great post.

Good stuff Andy.