Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board - VOTE Cheap Full Fields vs Quality Short Fields

10-30-2009, 12:26 AM

#16

raybo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CBedo

Although high quality animals are beautiful to watch run, for their physical beauty and mental toughness, it's a no brainer. Full fields trump quality fields.

The key though for me is "competitive" full fields, no matter what the quality. Some races (high and low quality) have full fields, but if 2/3 of the field has zero chance, then you don't get the benefit of having a full field.

These types of fields are where I flourish. Those "zero chance" horses you speak of bring in huge supers.

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10-30-2009, 12:33 AM

#17

Valuist

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman179

I would consider a short field to be 7 or less. 8 horses still gives a good chance at catching an overlay exotic.

Give me a meaty 12 horse $3500 maiden claimer at Beulah Park any day. You can keep the graded stakes with five horses in them, like it does the bettors any good watching a 3/5 coast by open lengths. I'd definitely bet on full field graded stakes, but it's so rare to actually find one.

I wasn't referring to 5 horse stakes fields. I don't think there's a better day to make money in the entire year than Breeders Cup day, with Derby Day at CD a close second. Now, granted, most of those fields aren''t small. My point was the best betting opportunities come in stakes races, where even the biggest longshots have some shot at winning and a decent shot at crashing the tri. In maiden races and maiden claiming races, there's always the unknown factor of first time starters. Personally, I don't trust the workouts at the majority of tracks. I also don't want to be betting on unknown quantities (except to their connections). I'd prefer an 8 horse field or bigger, but I'd take the well balanced 7 horse stakes field over the 12 horse bunch of maiden claimers filled with first and second timers, and brutal beasts who will never break their maiden.

10-30-2009, 12:44 AM

#18

CBedo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by raybo

These types of fields are where I flourish. Those "zero chance" horses you speak of bring in huge supers.

I'll buy that to some extent, but you give me an evenly matched field where three 3/1 shots run in the money, the value will be roughly the same as a when a 3/5 shot wins with a 4/1 and a 50/1 bomb running third (I realize that's simplistic).

I could care less about the overall quality from stakes to cheap maiden claimers; I just want "seemingly" evenly matched. Of course, I hope to have some insight that shows they are not truly evenly matched!

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10-30-2009, 12:45 AM

#19

CBedo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman179

Wow! 32 to 3 in favor of the cheapies. That speaks volumes.

I'm in favor of full fields. My vote was for quantity over quality!

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10-30-2009, 01:02 AM	#20
Warren Henry Once/Always Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Kansas City Missouri Posts: 720 vCash: 400	Response is proving my theory The real appeal of racing for the majority of us is the gambling. But that is the part that has long been neglected by the powers that be. The more entries and the more competitive the race, the better chance for me to make a score (assuming of course that I find something to like that others are overlooking). I love the pagentry and tradition of racing. I love the beauty and spirit of the better horses. However, if I can't bet, I am only going to watch/play a couple of days a year. __________________ Warren ________________________________ The most important software is between your ears

10-30-2009, 01:19 AM

#21

raybo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CBedo

Yeah, by evenly matched I assume you're speaking of public perception. I don't want truly evenly matched fields, I want horses that look like crap to the public, the more the merrier.

The 3/5 w 4/1 w 50/1, might be ok for a Tri but I don't bet Tris, only supers so, for me, that 3/5 is perfectly acceptable, even the 4/1, but the other 2 rows have to be high odds, but not 50/1 necessarily, it depends on the odds spread on the rest of the field and the size of the pool.

If I can't get $300 for $1 on my lowest odds combination, I don't wager.

10-30-2009, 04:36 AM

#22

WinterTriangle

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

I see a 5 horse allowance field in California with a 6-5 shot and an 8-5 shot, and I'd rather listen to how my wife's day was than think about betting it.

Agree. There is even a lack of excitement in the race caller's voice. No cheering in the background. It's like 5-6 horse field, here's how it went, ho-hum, yawn yawn.

I reviewed my records for 2 years, all my big socres are in large fields.

10-30-2009, 08:43 AM	#23
MickJ26 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 489 vCash: 400	Large fields are good for playing exactas and triples. Small fields are good for playing pick 3's, 4's and 6's. I'd rather see and play the superstars of the sport than bottom level claimers. Just my opinion.

10-30-2009, 08:47 AM

#24

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MickJ26

Large fields are good for playing exactas and triples.
Small fields are good for playing pick 3's, 4's and 6's.
I'd rather see and play the superstars of the sport than bottom level claimers.
Just my opinion.

I like big fields when it comes to horizontal bets too. I'm not into $26 double payoffs or $58 pick 3 payoffs.

Watching superstars is for fans, not bettors.

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10-30-2009, 09:30 AM	#25
rrbauer Both-hands Bettor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NASCAR Country Posts: 4,390 vCash: 2	Why the "either, or" limit on this issue? The three most important qualities for field size: 1. FULL FIELDS 2. FULL FIELDS 3. FULL FIELDS Racetracks should be prohibited from even offering wagering on fields with less than 5 betting interests. Of course that will never happen, so it's up to we customers to implement our own prohibition. If we stop supporting the crap offerings in this game they will dry up and go away. If we don't stop supporting the crap offerings in this game then we have nothing to complain about and the crap will continue to flow. Downhill as always! __________________ Richard Bauer

10-30-2009, 09:37 AM	#26
Valuist Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7,990 vCash: 400	I think the biggest misconception is the thought that cheap races= big payoffs, and stakes races = 3-5 winners. I don't find that true at all.

10-30-2009, 09:41 AM

#27

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Valuist

I think the biggest misconception is the thought that cheap races= big payoffs, and stakes races = 3-5 winners. I don't find that true at all.

I think what people here are comparing is the payoffs of cheap horses in 10 horse fields versus Stake/allowance horses in 5 or 6 horse fields.

10-30-2009, 11:09 AM	#28
twindouble Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lenox MA Posts: 2,772 vCash: 400	I started out playing the lower class tracks and the fairs. I love full fields even at the better tracks when they have them but I'll invest more in claiming races, Md Sp Wt and Md Clm when there's enough past performances to digest. Not that I don't take interest in stake races or the traditional graded races along with the triple crown and breeder cup but I don't go all out wagering on them. This pole will show that player's will play into higher than average takeout pools but that don't mean they are ignorant of the fact lower takeout would be better for all of us.

10-30-2009, 11:15 AM

#29

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Quote:

Originally Posted by twindouble

I started out playing the lower class tracks and the fairs. I love full fields even at the better tracks when they have them but I'll invest more in claiming races, Md Sp Wt and Md Clm when there's enough past performances to digest. Not that I don't take interest in stake races or the traditional graded races along with the triple crown and breeder cup but I don't go all out wagering on them. This pole will show that player's will play into higher than average takeout pools but that don't mean they are ignorant of the fact lower takeout would be better for all of us.

As I just pointed out in a post: http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2009/...ver-higher.html big fields are not the only factor that gets one to bet more. Take Woodbine for instance, they have pretty decent sized fields, but their handle sucks most of the time. What motivates the bettor is probably a combo of field size, takeout, and gasp surface.

When comparing Woodbine to Keeneland, takeout really does matter, because it aint the surface.

10-30-2009, 11:16 AM	#30
jballscalls Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,331 vCash: 400	honestly, until i'd watched a few years worth of races each day, i couldnt tell the difference between a low level claimer in a Grade 1 if it were on TV. my buddies that come to the track 5 times a year dont care if the horses are good or terrible. But they do complain when there is only 6 horses in a race.