Re: HANA Member Survey

[trying2win]

HANA just sent me a member survey via email. HANA neglected to list NORTHLANDS PARK (my home track) in some of the survey choices. Please make this amendment, then I'll complete the survey.

Thanks,

T2W

[banacek]

Originally Posted by trying2win

HANA just sent me a member survey via email. HANA neglected to list NORTHLANDS PARK (my home track) in some of the survey choices. Please make this amendment, then I'll complete the survey.

Thanks,

T2W

or HASTINGS...but Assiniboia is there?

[trying2win]

HANA has STAMPEDE PARK as one of the choices in this survey. They didn't even conduct thoroughbred racing there in 2009! Another Oops!

On the positive side, I think this survey is a great idea. Kudos to HANA for that.

Let's hope more and more PA members will sign up up to become a HANA member. What are you waiting for? For the racetracks, horsemen, state and provincial governments to get more financial benefits, while you the bettor get nothing or next-to-nothing? Let's get more clout into the hands of HANA and it's members. What do you say?

T2W

[CBedo]

I just took the survey, and wanted to make a couple comments.

First off, everyone take the survey! The more accurate information we have about our group as a whole, the better HANA can serve us.

Secondly, thanks to whoever put this together. I've put together focus group surveys in the past and they aren't as easy as you would expect. Trying to ask things you assume, but don't know, without bias can be tough experiment design.

Third, the main thing I wanted to mention was that I might not be giving horse players as a group enough credit, but I feel that most of us have somewhat short attention spans and I thought the survey was a bit long. Maybe others don't agree, but I would have rather had a shorter survey that got our feelings on overall issues, and then possibly over time, further in depth surveys on specific issues. Don't assume what the issues will be. Let the base survey and HANA membership lead HANA into further studies.

Lastly, I'd love to see the aggregate information for average age and years of betting horses (which I was surprised weren't back to back questions). Getting a picture of the overall demographic of HANA members relative to overall horse racing demographics (and possibly even PA demographics) might give us some ideas of where the industry is, where the group is, and where it might need to go to drive membership growth. It's ironic that I literally have a draft of a "how old are you" poll that I was going to post here at PA sometime tonight.

Keep up the great work,

Chris

[Murph]

Originally Posted by CBedo

I just took the survey, and wanted to make a couple comments.

First off, everyone take the survey! The more accurate information we have about our group as a whole, the better HANA can serve us.

I wasn't "invited" to take this survey. I have HANA e-mail dated Oct. 1, 2009. wtf?

[DeanT]

Hey Murph, and anyone else who is a member who happened to not receive an email invite, please email info@hanaweb.org with the email you signed up to HANA with and we can double-check it. We'll make sure you can fill out the survey.

[speculus]

Originally Posted by trying2win

HANA just sent me a member survey via email. HANA neglected to list NORTHLANDS PARK (my home track) in some of the survey choices. Please make this amendment, then I'll complete the survey.

Thanks,

T2W

For a personal reason, I wish to know about the format/contents of this survey. I am not qualified to become a member because I am not an American, so can someone help me with this if it is not in any way against the policies of HANA? MY mail address is gosavi@mid-day.com . Thanks in advance.

[Indulto]

Since I haven’t received a few of the more recent emails announcing HANA blog entries, I had assumed my e-mail address had finally been scratched by the powers-that-be, but I did get a survey invitation, and figured maybe I got it in enlightened anticipation that I would critique it, and so I completed it.

First the good news:

1) The survey did ask for prioritization of seven issues HANA is working on.

2) The survey asked to what extent responders were concerned with a variety of issues HANA is at least considering; some of which overlapped the issues to be prioritized

3) The survey asked whether responders agreed with specific positions on various other issues.

4) The survey did ask for information to enable it to determine how the membership breaks down demographically, where and when they bet, and which tracks they prefer.

5) The survey did allow a decline to answer option when appropriate

Now the not so good news:

1) While HANA did address the takeout issue from several perspectives, when asking about rebates it didn’t distinguish between rebates based on volume and fixed rebates. Thus all such questions didn’t allow for additional possible answers and effects. Because there was a question on high rebate thresholds, and because there was no question about whether effective takeout should be equal for all players, one must assume that the only rebate strategy in which HANA is interested is wagering volume-based.

2) The survey did not ask the respondent to prioritize the wager types they prefer. Nor did it ask for the preferred minimum for each wager type.

a. The survey did address a change in minimum as a “new wager,” but the only option that interested me was the $.50 Pick Five. There was no option for a $1 Pick Six, a $.50 National Best Six, or even OTHER with a write-in.

b. The first time “new wager with reduced minimum” was mentioned, there was no indication that the term could also refer to an existing wager type with a reduced minimum. Consequently, I didn’t prioritize it as highly as I might have initially, and then forgot to go back and change it after I understood what was intended.

3) The survey asked for responses regarding whether the industry should spend the money to enable updating of odds in real-time, but no mention was made of the cost involved, nor whether we should wait and see how 0 MTP works out.

4) “Lack of on-track perks for high-volume bettors” should help identify such bettors in the survey results, but there is no corresponding option for bettors who would prefer a level playing field and enable their numbers to be reflected.

5) A good portion was devoted to HANA sponsored events and a possible convention, but no mention was made about how to conduct feedback on a regular basis or to facilitate direct communication between members with similar interests and/or concerns.

Observations:

1) There is no OTHER/write-in option to the question “What is the main reason you take breaks from betting on horse racing?”

2) I was surprised that the question “If a certain track would reduce its takeout rate to a level at least 5% less than the takeout rate of the track you currently play, would you be willing to move a portion of your play to that track?” wasn’t followed by the three tracks least likely to be played under such circumstances.

3) I’m not well-versed on this issue, but how does the option “Individual horses should be suspended for drug positives along with the trainer or owner” benefit horseplayers or apply to changes of ownership?

[Ray2000]

I believe HANA wants Harness Players on their rolls but there was no way to skip the first few questions about favorite/closest track, (Had to lie )

[banacek]

Originally Posted by Ray2000

but there was no way to skip the first few questions about favorite/closest track, (Had to lie )

That is a problem. As Hastings isn't there, I'm not doing the survey, as I would be "lying" too. There is no point to doing the survey (or compiling the results) if the data is incorrect. (Still a fan of HANA, but as a statistician having to lie on a survey would cause me to lose sleep )

[chickenhead]

I think the question said "Closest of those listed, favorite of those listed"..no lying required, and the data would be correct. There are US tracks not listed as well (including the one closest to me), it is not a slight against Canucks.

[banacek]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

I think the question said "Closest of those listed, favorite of those listed"..no lying required, and the data would be correct. There are US tracks not listed as well, it is not a slight against Canucks.

The data would be correct for the question, but not for what question we should want answered. If we want to know the habits of the horseplayers, it would seem that getting it right would be imperative. I play 90% of my bets at Hastings. Hastings is on the HANA list of tracks on the takeout report ..hey I'm not talking Sagebrush Downs here. If we want to really know what's going on, we need real results. If I put Santa Anita down as my favourite track, it messes up the results. If I put down that I bet $200 a race and the track I am betting it on isn't there, it messes up the results.

Again, this isn't anything against HANA. If they can't change the survey, then I believe it is the best course of action. I think by me not doing the survey that the results could be more accurate, as I would mess them up. The results could be better for "the tracks listed below". And it isn't a slight against Canada..as I said Assiniboia is there and it's handle is way way less than Hastings..heck Stampede might have bigger handle and it didn't race this year

[banacek]

An example to try to make my point. Say you are a Boston Red Sox fan. And you do a survey which asks "Of the teams listed below, who is your favourite team?", and only 20 of the teams are listed..and no Red Sox. Do you think there is any purpose in the Red Sox fan answering the question..like he would .

Or which Hollywood actress would you most like to sleep with... and Jessica Alba isn't there.....

[chickenhead]

Originally Posted by banacek

An example to try to make my point. Say you are a Boston Red Sox fan. And you do a survey which asks "Of the teams listed below, who is your favourite team?", and only 20 of the teams are listed..and no Red Sox. Do you think there is any purpose in the Red Sox fan answering the question..like he would .

Or which Hollywood actress would you most like to sleep with... and Jessica Alba isn't there.....

I think on both the entry and exit page it says this:

If there is a question or topic you would like to respond to in greater depth than the answer options provides, please answer the question on the questionnaire to the best of your capability and then please feel free to send us an e-mail with you additional comments at: horseplayersassociation@gmail.com

Fits this to a tee, no?

"I put Woodbine, but it really should have been Hastings, which was not listed. Whatsammata with you guys."

I'm only bringing it up because to me those are probably the two least important questions on the whole thing...probably having to do with potential HANA day at the races sites. It's a shame to NOT give your opinion on all the other stuff.

[CBedo]

Originally Posted by Indulto

one must assume that the only rebate strategy in which HANA is interested is wagering volume-based.

You know what happenss when you ASSume....