Poll - Is Takeout too high?

[Jeff P]

I'm asking for feedback... not just from HANA members, but from everyone here at PA. It doesn't matter if you a professional horseplayer, recreational player, occasional fan, owner, breeder, trainer, groom, track operator, track employee, ADW operator, ADW employee, tote company employee, NTRA Committee Member, past performance data company operator or employee, software developer, editor for a turf publication, turf writer, author, TV producer, on air talent, etc. HOW you are connected to the industry isn't the point. If you are reading this thread at PA you are connected to the industry in some way shape or form. I'm asking you an honest opinion if you have one.

[CBedo]

I would really like to hear explanations for those that vote they disagree!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Should be 10% at most for WPS, 15% for exotics, no breakage.

[Murph]

Just a 2% or 3% reduction could help many of us to make a little bit playing the game.

[Rocklane]

Originally Posted by Murph

Just a 2% or 3% reduction could help many of us to make a little bit playing the game.

Murph,

I needed 3% to keep churning in 2008. In 2009, my handle is $0. I'll go to Hoosier Park for a couple days the next few months, but I won't be playing anything close to what I was previously was playing.

Actually, finding this board and reading Hajck's five part series on the HANA site aided in making the decision to stop playing.

I see a couple executives from tracks come on this board to solicit business and soon leave once 80% of responders tell them to lower their track's take. They dissappear soon after.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

32-3-3-0-0 so far.

Obviously The Pied Poper and his followers have not voted yet.

[Dave Schwartz]

I am all for lowering takeouts. Period.

However, this is kind of like asking, "Would you like to see the price of automobiles drop by 40%?" or "Would you like to get a 50% raise at work?"

I'd bet that even the tracks would like to see takeouts drop provided that their needs are still going to be met.


Seriously, Jeff, considering your audience, why would anyone not want something that benefits them?


The problem isn't what WE think is right or a good thing, the issue is "How do we get the industry to change?" As you have seen thus far the industry is not paying you more than lip service. Frankly, having them begin to notice you is a step in the right direction but it is a single step on a very long journey.


So, the question is, "Do you have a plan to MAKE the industry invite you to a real negotiating table for change?" (I am not asking what that plan is, just if you have a plan.)


Dave

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I am all for lowering takeouts. Period.

However, this is kind of like asking, "Would you like to see the price of automobiles drop by 40%?" or "Would you like to get a 50% raise at work?"

Dave,

I respectfully disagree with that. I think we should give horseplayers a little more credit.

If someone asks me if I think McDonald's prices are too high, I would have to say no. I get a burger at a decent price in 45 seconds for what I think is a fair price. Sure I would like to buy a meal for $1 but I think their prices are fine.

The same goes with betfair. If you poll 1000 people there if they think takeout is too high on racing, you would probably see a good mix. I dont think takeout is too high there. It seems about right to me - they give back to racing and offer a good service.

In racing here? I think a vast majority of players would think prices are too high - we'll see with this and other polls. But I think they think this, not because they are greedy or unrealistic, or want something for free, just because they think that it is.

Anyhow, just my opinion. But asking these questions can tell us quite a bit about the industry as a whole, and how horseplayers fit in that. I think a horseplayer can honestly say if he/she thinks that prices are fair or too high or too low.

[Jeff P]

I am all for lowering takeouts. Period.

However, this is kind of like asking, "Would you like to see the price of automobiles drop by 40%?" or "Would you like to get a 50% raise at work?"

I'd bet that even the tracks would like to see takeouts drop provided that their needs are still going to be met.


Seriously, Jeff, considering your audience, why would anyone not want something that benefits them?


The problem isn't what WE think is right or a good thing, the issue is "How do we get the industry to change?" As you have seen thus far the industry is not paying you more than lip service. Frankly, having them begin to notice you is a step in the right direction but it is a single step on a very long journey.


So, the question is, "Do you have a plan to MAKE the industry invite you to a real negotiating table for change?" (I am not asking what that plan is, just if you have a plan.)


Dave

Actually Dave, I DO have a plan. And yes, it's a long term plan. And yes, I realize I'm fighting a very uphill battle. But I'm ok with that. Anyone who really knows me knows that I'm actually good at fighting uphill battles. <G>

The first step is awareness and education. At the simplest most basic level - shine a spotlight on takeout in the following areas:

1. Make players aware that takeout matters - that better pricing (lower effective takeout) can be a real difference maker to their bottom lines.

2. Make track operators aware that an ever increasing percentage of racing customers are becoming more and more aware about takeout with the passing of each and every new day.

3. Educate track operators how their current 20 percent blended takeout structure is so high that it sends gambling dollars elsewhere... offshore, away to other forms of gambling that racing has to compete with, etc.

4. Educate track operators, horsemen, as well as members of state legislatures that real world case histories EXIST in the State Lottery Market Space where prize payouts have been increased (reduced takeout) to produce massive increases in revenue flowing back to state coffers.

5. Remind track operators, horsemen, as well as members of state legislatures that over the years the industry has paid out several hundred thousand dollars to consulting firms for economic studies and recommendations. The gist of these studies and recommendations was summed up by the NTRA Players Panel as follows:

Virtually all known studies of the dynamics of pari-mutuel wagering indicate an inverse relationship between takeout rates and handle, such that a reduction in takeout inevitably results in significantly greater handle.

6. Educate horsemen that the current 20 percent blended takeout is costing them purse money because of the depressed handle that it causes.

Dave, you were involved very early on in those War Room meetings that led to HANA being formed. Yet a search of the HANA memeber database doesn't show your name. Would I be asking too much if I asked you to click the link below and sign up as a HANA Member? <G>

HANA Sign Up Link
http://www.jcapper.com/HANA/SignUp/H...m.asp?source=0

-jp

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[Dave Schwartz]

I signed up long ago. In fact, I was one of the earliest.

I am more than willing to sign up again but if you have lost my registration, how many others have you lost?

Dave

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I signed up long ago. In fact, I was one of the earliest.

I am more than willing to sign up again but if you have lost my registration, how many others have you lost?

Dave

Uh oh!

You have lost your seniority.

Back of the line!

[DeanT]

You are there Dave. Way back last August. Wow, time flies. I had to resubmit your email addy tho to keep things up to date.

ITP: Love the new sig.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

As you have seen thus far the industry is not paying you more than lip service.

Actually that's one thing the industry does some of the time which is smart. They've obviously watched The Godfather (Sun Tzu too complicated).

"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer"

[Jeff P]

Dave, I owe you an apology. I spelled your name wrong during my db search. Must be going a wee bit daft in me advanced age.

But I stand by my statement that I do have a long term plan, that this is an uphill battle, and that the first step is awareness and education.

ITP, I'm admittedly newer at dealing with them than you are. But yes. I'm discovering they are very adept at paying lip service.


-jp

.

[Dave Schwartz]

Boy, that was close.


Jeff,

I am thrilled to see that you have a plan. If the key to a good local business is location, location, location, the key to success in what you are trying to accomplish is membership, membership, membership.

May I suggest that every HANA email you send out should have current membership on the bottom?

Also, does HANA have a Facebook Fan page? How about Twitter?


Dave