Slowly but surely the truth about synthetic surfaces...... - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

andymays · 06-26-2009, 10:40 AM

By Art Wilson:

http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/ci_12690905

Excerpt:

Ask the trainers who are discovering all sorts of different ailments with their horses that never cropped up before synthetics, or go solicit the opinions of all the major horse players who are confronted with five- and six-horse fields all too often.

"I'm just not a true believer in the synthetics," jockey Calvin Borel told turf writers on a national conference call this week. "I don't know, it kind of messes with your head and stuff. I know from a gambler's point of view, it has to be hard. You can't go by the (Racing) Form. It's just so hard to pick a horse to win on a synthetic track."

Raise your hand if you really think these artificial surfaces have lived up to their billing.

"Originally, it was probably 60-40 or 70-30 for (synthetics), and I'd say it's 80-20 against right now, maybe even 90-10," trainer Gary Stute said recently. "I mean, I can't name 10 trainers off-hand that I talk to that actually still like it.

cj's dad · 06-26-2009, 10:49 AM

Just say no to synthetics, as in 0 wagers. I have.

andymays · 06-26-2009, 11:06 AM

http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/ci_12690905

The article by Art Wilson allows comments below the article and these are from me:

Outstanding article Art. The "synthetic shills" at TVG and HRTV have been promoting this junk on behalf of Santa Anita, Del Mar, and Hollywood Park for too long. Santa Anita is the worst by far. Almost 50% carryovers at that meet. Pro Ride (Hocus Pocus Junk) in my opinion is a fraudulent surface and Ron Charles should be ashamed of himself for screwing the public. The day they dug up the track in the middle of the card (2008) and changed it from a speed favoring surface to a dead closers track was the worst case of defrauding the betting public I have ever seen. Those of us that had bets in action were cheated. The CHRB should have fined Santa Anita $100,000 and put it in a pick 4 pool the following week.

Keep speaking out Art. Lord knows the shills at TVG and HRTV won't. Even the good people on those networks that want to speak out can't because they're afraid of losing their jobs. I hope a couple of them come on here anonymously and verify what I have said.

rastajenk · 06-26-2009, 11:08 AM

I think it's amusing that, at the dawn of the synthetic age a couple years ago, the gurus complained it would take away the bias, favorites would be easy to identify and bet, and the payoffs and predictability would resemble harness racing. The big bettors, seeking value, would take their action someplace else.

Now that the new surfaces are unpredictable, bettors are taking their action somewhere else.

I don't have any additional insights into this, except that horseplayers are the toughest bunch of customers to please anywhere in the disposable income industries.

bucksboy · 06-26-2009, 11:32 AM

I agree ..... 0 wagers from me on the Poly. I had to laugh when TVG took on
Woodbine, not only with the takeout rate, but the plastic track to boot...
then they showed Woodbine live and showed Belmont on tape delay. I know
racing has it's problems, drugs, takeout, etc.----but the plastic has to go..
JMHO

turfbar · 06-26-2009, 11:33 AM

I am just paraphrasing but I read where Nick Zito said , for 200 years we bred horses for speed now we introduce syn tracks which resemble turf racing and we are handing the thorobred crown back to the French and English.

Well said.

Turfbar

cj's dad · 06-26-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucksboy

I agree ..... 0 wagers from me on the Poly. I had to laugh when TVG took on
Woodbine, not only with the takeout rate, but the plastic track to boot...
then they showed Woodbine live and showed Belmont on tape delay. I know racing has it's problems, drugs, takeout, etc.----but the plastic has to go..
JMHO

Happened yesterday that I am aware of. I normally support TVG, but this decision had me pretty puzzled.

jonnielu · 06-26-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

By Art Wilson:

http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/ci_12690905

If you are going to accept that article as truth, you might want to get your BS meter tuned/calibrated.

jdl

andymays · 06-26-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnielu

If you are going to accept that article as truth, you might want to get your BS meter tuned/calibrated.

jdl

The comments from Calvin Borel and Gary Stute speak for themeselves. By the way I had my BS meter calibrated before I started the thread. As soon as you posted your stuff on the subject it went nuts and almost crashed.

Cadillakin · 06-26-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnielu

If you are going to accept that article as truth, you might want to get your BS meter tuned/calibrated.

jdl

It's a problem when the only trainer quoted (Gary Stute) is as cold as a well-diggers ass over these last months.. Previously, andymays unearthed some old quotes of Darrel Vienna and Mark Glatt to support his position against synthetics.. Both of those trainers are hitting at a very high rate just now, with Vienna over 33% in the last 90 days... and Glatt well over his averages

I'm guessing both of those guys will be singing a different tune at the moment..

jonnielu · 06-26-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

The comments from Calvin Borel and Gary Stute speak for themeselves. By the way I had my BS meter calibrated before I started the thread. As soon as you posted your stuff on the subject it went nuts and almost crashed.

Well then, maybe you could supply the back-up material that the article fails to produce beyond the opinion of a jockey and a trainer.

jdl

Valuist · 06-26-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj's dad

Just say no to synthetics, as in 0 wagers. I have.

I grew up near Arlington and still live fairly close to it. I bet that track for about 25 years. But no more. I will not support or wager at all on their main track races.

jonnielu · 06-26-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadillakin

It's a problem when the only trainer quoted (Gary Stute) is as cold as a well-diggers ass over these last months.. Previously, andymays unearthed some old quotes of Darrel Vienna and Mark Glatt to support his position against synthetics.. Both of those trainers are hitting at a very high rate just now, with Vienna over 33% in the last 90 days... and Glatt well over his averages

I'm guessing both of those guys will be singing a different tune at the moment..

I would also like to know if the article strictly revolves around the Cal market as it seems to. If the truth about synthetics actually does get out at some point, I'll try not to be in the way of the horseplayer rush to embrace it.

jdl

jonnielu · 06-26-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valuist

I grew up near Arlington and still live fairly close to it. I bet that track for about 25 years. But no more. I will not support or wager at all on their main track races.

Arlington Park is the most rewarding summer meet in the country, you only punish yourself primarily, racing secondarily.

jdl

Valuist · 06-26-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnielu

Arlington Park is the most rewarding summer meet in the country, you only punish yourself primarily, racing secondarily.

jdl

I can go there and watch and wager on Belmont or Saratoga. I'll even play Arlington's grass races. But not their Poly races. I had a number of very good meets at the old Arlington but no more. Of all the synthetic surfaces, I believe it is the most puzzling and I'm not going to throw away my money trying to learn it.