Sorry to read about OFF-SHORE wagering ...

[Notso]

How does off-shore wagering support thoroughbred racing in North America?

NotSO

[Jeff P]

It doesn't.

But...

IMHO, if the industry (horseman's groups and track management ) had their acts together and created an environment that was player friendly instead of the current status quo which borders on hostility towards players -

If horseman's groups and track management allowed ALL ADWs to have access to ALL track signals - instead of denying track signals to ADWs that champion the cause of the player - like the TOC recently did when it denied CA track signals to PTC -

If the takeout on racing (either through lowered takeout or rebates) was competitive with other forms of gambling and the industry used that as a marketing platform so that betting on horses was seen as an attractive proposition instead of the pariah that racing currently is among the generation of 20 somethings who shun it in favor of slots and poker -

If tracks made live streaming video and replays available right from their websites -

If Equibase wasn't constantly trying out new ways to make it more and more difficult for potential new fans to build a racing database -

If those running the racing industry weren't so monopoly minded...

If the industry made any type of concerted effort to figure out customer needs and wants and made customer satisfaction a priority -

Then I submit to you that North American players by the thousands would never be betting offshore in the first place.


-jp

.

[njcurveball]

Here is a similar question how does sports betting benefit Football?

[dutchboy]

Originally Posted by njcurveball

Here is a similar question how does sports betting benefit Football?

TV ad sales. How many people watch a game when the only interest is financial?

Read the estimated answer but I don't recall the specifics but seem to recall it was estimated to be substantial. That story may have only applied to the Super Bowl.

[cnollfan]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

If horseman's groups and track management allowed ALL ADWs to have access to ALL track signals

If the takeout on racing (either through lowered takeout or rebates) was competitive with other forms of gambling and the industry used that as a marketing platform

If tracks made live streaming video and replays available right from their websites -

If Equibase wasn't constantly trying out new ways to make it more and more difficult for potential new fans to build a racing database -

If those running the racing industry weren't so monopoly minded...

If the industry made any type of concerted effort to figure out customer needs and wants and made customer satisfaction a priority -

Then I submit to you that North American players by the thousands would never be betting offshore in the first place.


-jp

.

Amen. I would prefer to bet legally, but it's a big hassle.

[rrbauer]

The horse racing industry presents its customers with a "take it or leave it" proposition. Guess what? There are more and more customers sigining on to the "leave it" side of the proposition!

[trying2win]

JEFF:

Great post! In my opinion, you're right on the money!


T2W

[Tom]

Great post,Jeff.
It is becoming more and more evident that it is not the only game in town as the industry brain trust would like us to believe.
What a concept: piss off your customers and then wonder where they went!

[levinmpa]

Jeff P is right on the money. For whatever reason, the racing industry has not seen a need to try to compete for the gambling dollar. I just don't get it. Casinos are everywhere, nearly every state has a lottery, online Poker has exploded, but why should racing try to compete for the dollars they never had to compete for before? Wake up! The leaders of the industry should be at State Capitols, and on Capitol hill lobbying for a lower takeout and a reduction or complete elimination of the tax on $5000 payouts at greater than 300/1. Keep more money in the players' pockets, and increase the churn, and the pools will increase along with the bottom line. It's pure mathematics. They need to get people back to the track and make the mathematics of the game more appealing to a much more educated public. When a 25 year old has a choice between a low takeout, high action game like poker, compared to the high takeout, one race every 30 minutes at the track, what are they going to choose? It's time to start competing.

[Dick Powell]

There are two types of offshore wagering. There are the rebate shops that are like any other ADW. They pay the tracks the highest rates for the signals and this revenue is split equally to the track for its operations and its horsemen for the purse fund.

Then, there are the offshore internet bookmaking sites that do not pay the tracks for the signals and nothing goes back to the racing industry.

Both are offshore; one helps the industry, the other does not.

[Tom]

And just why should we worry about helping the industry?
Maybe if the industry worried about us, but I could care who in the industry gets hurt. No one hurts horse racing like "the industry" itself. Screw 'em.

[JPinMaryland]

Ive pretty much given up on it myself. Last bet I placed was on the derby. Ive gained a lot more free time now. I dont read the websites any more or study any races. I still tune in from time time for a race and I check back here occasionally. I guess it was the 20%+ takeout that was the deciding factor for me. I could see still playing these horses if the takeout was only 10% or so like I hear it was in the 60s. I dont know if that was ever true, but I could understand people making a living off of it back then. Be really hard to now.

[SMOO]

Originally Posted by Tom

Great post,Jeff.
It is becoming more and more evident that it is not the only game in town as the industry brain trust would like us to believe.
What a concept: piss off your customers and then wonder where they went!

Good post.

[podonne]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

If the takeout on racing (either through lowered takeout or rebates) was competitive with other forms of gambling and the industry used that as a marketing platform so that betting on horses was seen as an attractive proposition instead of the pariah that racing currently is among the generation of 20 somethings who shun it in favor of slots and poker.

Hi, I didn't immediatly make the connection between lower takeout and offshore wagering. Certainly it effects wagering on horses vs wagering on poker, but all the offshore books I've seen pay "track odds", which means even though the money doesn't go into the pools, the payouts still are paid like they did (i.e., the track takeout just goes to the book.)

Now that doesn't count rebates... I don't use the offshore that much.

Of course, I think lower pools in the short term are good for the horseplayer. Some smaller tracks will eventually go out of business and the ones that are left will have to compete with each other for your gambling dollar, and that can only be good.

[Poindexter]

I am a strictly recreational player. I have been playing the horse for over 30 years so I am no novice. I had never really cared about rebates until september of 2003. Then Pinnacle started giving a 7 % rebates to all clients on horse wagers. I was hooked. You see like most horse players I am about sharp enough to hold my own(if I did the work-but since I do not do the work they grind me out a little bit). The problem is that for me like most others without rebates this game is just not beatable(Especially when you have sharper guys betting millions of dollars a year and getting big fat rebates). The days of betting against idiots in the stand are long gone. Once Pinnacle pulled out of the US market I pretty much gave up on the sport(that in combination with the tracks switching to these artificial surfaces which changed the game). But I am back in action now. Bookmaker offerrs 8% rebates on exotics and the ehorse exchange offerrs tremendous value on occasion, between the 2 the game is fun,slightly profitable, and enables me to have a lot more actions, rather than being very tough to beat. So to shed further light, these are my actual numbers over the last 5 years.


330 visits(if you call playing from my living room or business a visit). Net loss on wagers $7400 but net rebates $10,400. So in answer to the point of the post, yes racing doesn't make squat from me (with the exception of occaison pick six plays) but frankly they are not going to make squat from me no matter what, because the game is too tough to beat without rebates(especially when the biggest bettors are getting huge rebates). With rebates it is a ton of fun and slightly profitable. Those are the cold hard facts. Until racing gets there head out of their ***(and brings the take down significantly or enables me to bet california racing with rebates) there will be only one game in town for me and that is offshore. If that avenue is closed then I would stop betting horses period. The game is just too tough without rebates.