Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > Advance Deposit Wagering (ADW)


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 05-16-2008, 11:17 AM   #1
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,960
Is California Lookng at a New Delivery Mechanism?

A friend pointed me to the notice on the Betfair site :

Quote:
As part of our ongoing negotiations with representatives of the Californian horseracing authorities, we have agreed - for a short period of time - to cease offering markets from Californian tracks on Betfair. Californian tracks offered previously by Betfair include Bay Meadows, Del Mar, Golden Gate, Hollywood and Santa Anita. We recognise this will disappoint many customers who enjoy betting on these events and apologise for the inconvenience this lack of service will cause.

We are working to improve the quality and quantity of our US racing products and hope to be able to announce some significant improvements to our service, later this year.

The markets on Californian racing will not be offered from Monday, May 19. They will be reintroduced no later than the end of the summer, possibly much earlier and updated service announcements will be made on the Betfair forum.
This would be a first for US racing, which has poo-pood deals like this in the past. Is Cali stepping out from the rest of racing and offering their product to a world wide audience, or is this something else?

If it is set up like Betfair has it set in Australia, this will no doubt increase the pool size on all Cali tracks (not like they need it I guess, but it will). And for the first time, bettors from across the globe will be contributing to Cali purses, as well. Betfair has 1.1 million customers.

Last edited by DeanT; 05-16-2008 at 11:26 AM.
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 04:40 PM   #2
rrbauer
Both-hands Bettor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NASCAR Country
Posts: 4,390
Is Betfair action on Calif tracks outside the pari-mutuel pools now?

If that is the case, then you're speculation seems right....that BF will stop taking Calif action to give Calif time to do whatever (legislation action, etc) is necessary to make BF's action part of their pools.
__________________
Richard Bauer
rrbauer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 05:28 PM   #3
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,960
I think it was ok for them to offer US tracks on the conditon that they do not accept US customers. No, they did not contribute to the pools.

If this is actually a plan to license them as an ADW, then I think they would get some nice volume. BF had 50,000 customers in 2003 and have increased by 20-25X since that time.

They are currently in Australia and there they offer some interesting things - a link to pools like any ADW and a link to the exchange betting platform as well.

Here is a look at their racing platform. It is quite innovative and bettors seem to enjoy the features. I think they are a lot like a Premier Turf Club, but they are not shackled with as many rules and fingers in the pie. Racing lets them do their own thing there.

I do not know if this link works in the States. It is their main racing page where you can bet, look at trainer and jockey stats through a searchable database, look at Timeform stuff for free, etc.

http://form.horseracing.betfair.com/
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 05:46 PM   #4
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,960
PS: It amazes me to no end. This is on their racing website:

We are committed to putting the punter first and developing these products to suit your needs. Please send feedback and suggested enhancements to us at......

I have honestly seen two places in this world in racing who have that as part of their business plan, betfair and Premier Turf Club. It seems like second nature to us as web users but to racing it seems like a foreign concept at times. I wonder if the horseman run ADW would have such a paragraph?

Last edited by DeanT; 05-16-2008 at 05:49 PM.
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 06:00 PM   #5
trigger
Registered User
 
trigger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbauer
Is Betfair action on Calif tracks outside the pari-mutuel pools now?

If that is the case, then you're speculation seems right....that BF will stop taking Calif action to give Calif time to do whatever (legislation action, etc) is necessary to make BF's action part of their pools.
How does BF wagering become part of parimutuel pools?
trigger is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 06:04 PM   #6
Cangamble
Agitator
 
Cangamble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
Posts: 2,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by trigger
How does BF wagering become part of parimutuel pools?
I don't think that is the plan. They would compliment the parimutuel pool, and a percentage of Betfair's rake would go to the horsemen and the track.
__________________
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/
"Make a bet every day; otherwise you might walk around lucky and never know it."
Cangamble is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 06:11 PM   #7
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,960
That is not what they did when they were licensed in Australia. There is (or will be) a link right in the interface to bet right into all pools, exotics, WPS, whatever. That is in addition to the exchange, which is smart, because if you cant get your price, you can bet right into the pool and keep all the action in the same acct.
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 06:26 PM   #8
Cangamble
Agitator
 
Cangamble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
Posts: 2,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanT
That is not what they did when they were licensed in Australia. There is (or will be) a link right in the interface to bet right into all pools, exotics, WPS, whatever. That is in addition to the exchange, which is smart, because if you cant get your price, you can bet right into the pool and keep all the action in the same acct.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but under the partnership, wouldn't Betfair have to pay money to the Australia tracks (a percentage of their rake) and then get a percentage of the bet in the parimutuel pools (for acting like an ADW).
__________________
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/
"Make a bet every day; otherwise you might walk around lucky and never know it."
Cangamble is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 09:09 PM   #9
rrbauer
Both-hands Bettor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NASCAR Country
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by trigger
How does BF wagering become part of parimutuel pools?
The transmit it to a hub that forwards it to the host track. Just another outlet.....
__________________
Richard Bauer
rrbauer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 11:47 PM   #10
Kelso
Veteran
 
Kelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanT
I do not know if this link works in the States. It is their main racing page where you can bet, look at trainer and jockey stats through a searchable database, look at Timeform stuff for free, etc.

http://form.horseracing.betfair.com/
At least the home page came up all right when I tried it from here in the wilds of New Jersey.

I note that the page is labeled "Betfair powered by Timeform." Is Timeform somewhat analogous to Equibase? I don't knwo what "powered by" means, but is there the suggestion of a U.S. model here?
Kelso is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-16-2008, 11:51 PM   #11
Kelso
Veteran
 
Kelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cangamble
I don't think that is the plan. They would compliment the parimutuel pool, and a percentage of Betfair's rake would go to the horsemen and the track.
Screw those greedy bastards! Send it all to the tracks so they can use it to lower takeout ... and then, MAYBE and at their sole discretion, to fatten some purses as they deem economically prudent.
Kelso is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-17-2008, 12:39 AM   #12
rrbauer
Both-hands Bettor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NASCAR Country
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelso
At least the home page came up all right when I tried it from here in the wilds of New Jersey.

I note that the page is labeled "Betfair powered by Timeform." Is Timeform somewhat analogous to Equibase? I don't knwo what "powered by" means, but is there the suggestion of a U.S. model here?
Timeform is in the UK...it's not Equibase.
__________________
Richard Bauer
rrbauer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-17-2008, 12:56 AM   #13
Kelso
Veteran
 
Kelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbauer
Timeform is in the UK...it's not Equibase.
Understood, but is it the English/European version of Equibase? Is it owned by the industry, in some fashion or other, or is it a strictly private operaton?
Kelso is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-17-2008, 10:52 AM   #14
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelso
Understood, but is it the English/European version of Equibase? Is it owned by the industry, in some fashion or other, or is it a strictly private operaton?
That is what is neat about this, and what happens in racing when you let the market give something back to players.

Betfair bought Timeform to offer much of the data etc to their players.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...5/shexcl25.xml

Quote:

Quote:
Close observers believe the two companies are compatible Timeform have taken pride in retaining their objectivity while Betfair claim they would far prefer their punters to keep winning in order to maintain their custom.
Sounds a lot like what Ian and other sharpies do here - try and help players win, by offering free info. Because the simple fact is, when they win, or have a chance to, they bet much, much more, and can be convinced to be every day players.

Betfair also struck a deal with Thorograph to offer those products for free for bettors.

It's the 21 century and it is the way all companies in gambling have to act to compete. We are stuck in the dark ages here (PTC is a start to being what we should be) but over there delivery mechanisms like Betfair have kept handle and revenue where it should be for racing, in the face of fierce competition, imo, by offering customer-centric betting platforms, low takeouts and free data.

I wonder if Twinspires would grow their wager if they offered Bris data for free? Of course they would.

Last edited by DeanT; 05-17-2008 at 10:55 AM.
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-17-2008, 11:57 AM   #15
DJofSD
Screw PC
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Sounds a lot like what Ian and other sharpies do here - try and help players win, by offering free info. Because the simple fact is, when they win, or have a chance to, they bet much, much more, and can be convinced to be every day players.

Betfair also struck a deal with Thorograph to offer those products for free for bettors.

It's the 21 century and it is the way all companies in gambling have to act to compete. We are stuck in the dark ages here (PTC is a start to being what we should be) but over there delivery mechanisms like Betfair have kept handle and revenue where it should be for racing, in the face of fierce competition, imo, by offering customer-centric betting platforms, low takeouts and free data.

I wonder if Twinspires would grow their wager if they offered Bris data for free? Of course they would.
I see a parallel between the world economies and the wagering situation. Companies that compete on a global scale and derive profits from offshore have been doing very well the last 5 years, if not longer. Very often most of these companies profits from outside the US far outweigh domestic sources.

For the horse racing industry to survive they have to get beyond the regionalism and self-limiting way of doing business. Racing has to change and to embrace the changes. By that I mean technology changes everything and racing needs to adjust to that reality.

The race tracks and the horsemen have benefited from the shift from on-track wagering to interstate wagering via OTBs and now ADWs. Keeping restrictions like signal ownership and exclusivity harkens back to the old days and old ways. They can not have it both ways. If they want to enjoy the growth that will come from removing the barriers, moving to a "global" economy if you will, they have to remove the trade barriers -- call me a free trader if you like.

Last edited by DJofSD; 05-17-2008 at 11:59 AM.
DJofSD is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
How do you prefer your Coffee !?
Cream and Sugar - 28.57%
30 Votes
Cream only - 20.00%
21 Votes
Black - 41.90%
44 Votes
Decaf - 9.52%
10 Votes
Espresso - 12.38%
13 Votes
Starbucks etc... - 9.52%
10 Votes
Other - 23.81%
25 Votes
Total Votes: 105
This poll is closed.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2020 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved -- Best Viewed in a modern browser @ 1280x720 Resolution Or Higher
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.