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Old 03-04-2008, 11:26 AM   #1
ny0707ny
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Making horse racing more popular

How come it seems nobody ever tries to make horse racing a more mainstream sport?

One of the main problems I think in getting a big following is that people don't want to pay for the PP's for the races. It cost a fortune if you were to buy them for each race every day. So you really don't know anything about the race except who is running in it.

Why don't everyone that makes the PP's offer them really cheap to people? Have a deal cut with the racetracks so that they pay for some of the cost of them. Digital form is probably cheaper then print. So at least the online PP.

End result? You get more people going to all racetracks. The tracks make more money. The sites selling the PP will make more money. Probably more books and other horse racing data will be sold in much higher amounts. The viewers at home watching the races will also climb through the roof.

Has anyone ever thought about this? Or am I the only one?
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:39 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny0707ny
How come it seems nobody ever tries to make horse racing a more mainstream sport?

One of the main problems I think in getting a big following is that people don't want to pay for the PP's for the races. It cost a fortune if you were to buy them for each race every day. So you really don't know anything about the race except who is running in it.

Why don't everyone that makes the PP's offer them really cheap to people? Have a deal cut with the racetracks so that they pay for some of the cost of them. Digital form is probably cheaper then print. So at least the online PP.

End result? You get more people going to all racetracks. The tracks make more money. The sites selling the PP will make more money. Probably more books and other horse racing data will be sold in much higher amounts. The viewers at home watching the races will also climb through the roof.

Has anyone ever thought about this? Or am I the only one?
TSN has comma delimited data and results along with .pdf PP's and their version of a tip sheet for every track running for $2 a day.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny0707ny
How come it seems nobody ever tries to make horse racing a more mainstream sport?

One of the main problems I think in getting a big following is that people don't want to pay for the PP's for the races. It cost a fortune if you were to buy them for each race every day. So you really don't know anything about the race except who is running in it.

Why don't everyone that makes the PP's offer them really cheap to people? Have a deal cut with the racetracks so that they pay for some of the cost of them. Digital form is probably cheaper then print. So at least the online PP.

End result? You get more people going to all racetracks. The tracks make more money. The sites selling the PP will make more money. Probably more books and other horse racing data will be sold in much higher amounts. The viewers at home watching the races will also climb through the roof.

Has anyone ever thought about this? Or am I the only one?
you make a lot of good points, I think the lack of a central "commish" hurts as every track does what they wants instead what's best for the game, as in team sports. Plus it is an old fashioned sport that has to be dragged into the 21st century when it come to tech things like quicker tote updates.

BTW, back in my dad's day, horse racing was one of the "big 3" that included boxing & baseball.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:46 AM   #4
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One thing the sport does not need is federal oversight.
Just asking for a disaster.

sport desperately needs to go back to trying to attract, doctors, lawyers, brokers other people with high disposable incomes that think they know something,

and away fr the family of five with one bettor and the lotto crowds.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:48 AM   #5
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Thanks guys for your answers.

Other major sports like baseball and football, all the information is free online for past results and teams.

Maybe someday someone will try something different. If im still alive by then
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:48 AM   #6
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I think it's popularity stems alot deeper than $2.50 PP's and $3.50 simulcasts.

Being on the younger side I can say that horse racing does nothing to attract a younger crowd to the track. These younger people will soon be their future. If it wasn't for my dad, I would never go to the track, let alone follow it the way I do.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:15 PM   #7
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You can get pp's for less then $1 a track, even with the hard print Form.

Bottom line is there is a significant part of the every day horse players who are cheap. And lazy.

Not talking about the type that would be on this forum.

They think nothing of betting hundreds during a day but the thought of buying pp's or even a program are too much for them.

They have "gambling money" but never have money for anything else
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny0707ny
Thanks guys for your answers.

Other major sports like baseball and football, all the information is free online for past results and teams.

Maybe someday someone will try something different. If im still alive by then
True, but good luck with that, it seems like we "owe" someone for stats similar to ad-supported free stat sites for sports. This is one reason most young people bet illegally on sports rather than go and bet at the track or OTB.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:24 PM   #9
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But in contrast to the other major sports, you don't have to buy any paper before you bet on it or just follow for fun.

You can find out all the information on football games, what every player did during the game and all the stats on players and teams for free.

Just my opinion but I think it is just one of several other problems which we can talk about forever.

Thanks for writing back.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:36 PM   #10
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Here is some of the problem as I see it. This really from OP and it could be different elsewhere but no other place that I have seen.

I think gambling is gambling so we must look at tracks from a casino goers eyes.

1. You pay to get in. Here, you can write your rep and get a season pass but that helps few. Also as soon as the live meet is over that goes away. Slot players free- horse players pay. That causes some ill feelings

2. Parking- not only do you have to pay for parking but then they have only one shuttle to pick you up. Compare that to casinos.

3. Do the visuals between the average track and the average casino. Where would your wife or girlfriend rather be.

4. No proverbial buffet here.

5. the track owners have not, imo, decided exactly who they are competing with. Ol Charlie worked for years to get his beloved slots. He didn't even try for a sports book that in the south would keep people here continually.

6. There is no consensus between the horseman and the players. The two groups getting hammered in my opinion. Someone has divide and conguer going very well right now.

BTW, anyone thinks the tracks only get money from the players is very wrong. Even less of it comes from players no a days. Instead of worrying over which group is getting the better deal it would be much better if all the groups combined to get a little more from the owners and the commisions., or whatere group it is that sets the takeouts and fees (horsemen have tons also).

I also think there needs to be a licensing board for racetrack bets. Right now they are only really responsible to the ones who pay them.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillW
TSN has comma delimited data and results along with .pdf PP's and their version of a tip sheet for every track running for $2 a day.
You can get unlimited deals at TSN for next to nothing on a daily basis.
I usually just use their Premium Past Performances (50 cents a card) when I'm betting on 3 or more tracks in a day. I usually use my own variants for speed figures, but I find their speed figs more reliable than Beyers.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russowen77
Here is some of the problem as I see it. This really from OP and it could be different elsewhere but no other place that I have seen.

I think gambling is gambling so we must look at tracks from a casino goers eyes.

1. You pay to get in. Here, you can write your rep and get a season pass but that helps few. Also as soon as the live meet is over that goes away. Slot players free- horse players pay. That causes some ill feelings

2. Parking- not only do you have to pay for parking but then they have only one shuttle to pick you up. Compare that to casinos.

3. Do the visuals between the average track and the average casino. Where would your wife or girlfriend rather be.

4. No proverbial buffet here.

5. the track owners have not, imo, decided exactly who they are competing with. Ol Charlie worked for years to get his beloved slots. He didn't even try for a sports book that in the south would keep people here continually.

6. There is no consensus between the horseman and the players. The two groups getting hammered in my opinion. Someone has divide and conguer going very well right now.

BTW, anyone thinks the tracks only get money from the players is very wrong. Even less of it comes from players no a days. Instead of worrying over which group is getting the better deal it would be much better if all the groups combined to get a little more from the owners and the commisions., or whatere group it is that sets the takeouts and fees (horsemen have tons also).

I also think there needs to be a licensing board for racetrack bets. Right now they are only really responsible to the ones who pay them.
Woodbine and Fort Erie and I think all Ontario harness tracks have free admission and parking (unless you go for Valet). It doesn't mean anything, just gives the player another race to play. More churn money. The more the player has, the more he or she will churn potentially.

The biggest problem is that the takeouts are way too high. I know I sound like a broken record, but no winners create no buzz.

When you go to play poker online or blackjack at a casino you go in thinking you have a reasonable chance of winning. Someone who leaves Vegas a winner, creates potential players down the road. Someone who wins at online poker, creates new potential players down the road.
Horse racing used to be like that, but that was before Beyer figures leveled the playing field, drugs caused more erratic form, simulcasting turned betting on horses closer to betting on slots by taunting players with 60 bets a day versus 9, and the big one: Slots took away most of the dumb money out of the pools.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russowen77
Here is some of the problem as I see it. This really from OP and it could be different elsewhere but no other place that I have seen.

I think gambling is gambling so we must look at tracks from a casino goers eyes.

1. You pay to get in. Here, you can write your rep and get a season pass but that helps few. Also as soon as the live meet is over that goes away. Slot players free- horse players pay. That causes some ill feelings

2. Parking- not only do you have to pay for parking but then they have only one shuttle to pick you up. Compare that to casinos.

3. Do the visuals between the average track and the average casino. Where would your wife or girlfriend rather be.

4. No proverbial buffet here.

5. the track owners have not, imo, decided exactly who they are competing with. Ol Charlie worked for years to get his beloved slots. He didn't even try for a sports book that in the south would keep people here continually.

6. There is no consensus between the horseman and the players. The two groups getting hammered in my opinion. Someone has divide and conguer going very well right now.

BTW, anyone thinks the tracks only get money from the players is very wrong. Even less of it comes from players no a days. Instead of worrying over which group is getting the better deal it would be much better if all the groups combined to get a little more from the owners and the commisions., or whatere group it is that sets the takeouts and fees (horsemen have tons also).

I also think there needs to be a licensing board for racetrack bets. Right now they are only really responsible to the ones who pay them.



I agree 100%. The casinos kiss your ass six ways to Sundays and the racetracks treat you like garbage. If you ask a question of a casino worker you generally get a cordial, informative response. If you ask a question of a racetrack worker you generally get a rude, sarcastic response.
In addition, most casinos are modern and immaculate. Most racetracks are run down and dirty.
Unfortunately, most people don't see the drama of a great horse race or the thrill in handicapping a winner. Most people see it as straight up gambling and they'd rather go two and a half hours by car to Atlantic City or five hours by plane to Las Vegas.
Try and make patrons feel wanted and liked and you'll have a meaningful sport again. It all starts from there.
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:02 PM   #14
ny0707ny
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I noticed that when I was younger. I think "the sport of kings" means the horse is treated like the king. Not the customer.

I never have been in a casino but I think they are treated very nice from what I seen on TV and hear.

I was at racetracks when I was younger and you are right about what you say. I am not sure why it is like that. I never been able to figure that out.

Maybe it is the stereotype of the people who go to racetracks that cause people to be treated bad.

This is an entire other thread Thanks guys for your comments though. Im out.

Last edited by ny0707ny; 03-04-2008 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:59 PM   #15
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Taxation

Pure and simple, the problem is TAXATION. Why should the state and feds get a percentage of every dollar wagered?
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