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Old 01-02-2015, 10:54 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by pandy
Still, what you're saying is unfair. You can only evaluate a trainer based on what he does while the horses are in his barn, not after they leave his barn.
I disagree. I am fully capable of reading PPs.

If Jacobson (or anyone) takes a horse that recently won for 25k at Aqueduct and dumps him for 5k at Suffolk, I blame him just as much as the dumb sap that claimed him for 5k. He clearly isn't doing right by the horse in my opinion. Sure, he takes care of them when things are going well, but as soon as they turn south, he has no regard for their welfare.

But again, the system is enabling him. It could and should be fixed.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:59 AM   #47
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I understand what you mean, but he is simply doing something that is A), legal, and B), has been done for decades by hundreds of trainers in both harness and thoroughbred racing, and probably quarter horse racing, although I don't follow that sport. That's how you play the claiming game. You claim a horse and once you think you've gotten as much out of it as you can you drop the horse down and hope someone claims it from you.

Jacbonson doesn't do that with his most successful claims. He rests the horse, then brings them back and keeps winning.

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Old 01-02-2015, 11:05 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by pandy
I understand what you mean, but he is simply doing something that is A), legal, and B), has been done for decades by hundreds of trainers in both harness and thoroughbred racing, and probably quarter horse racing, although I don't follow that sport. That's how you play the claiming game. You claim a horse and once you think you've gotten as much out of it as you can you drop the horse down and hope someone claims it from you.

Pandy, it's what the trainers do medicinally to the horse while it's in their barn that has radically changed from the claiming game that used to exist. Dutrow is gone because of this, other trainers on the "watch" list are Jacobson, Rodriguez and Navarro, among others......
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:10 AM   #49
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Pandy, it's what the trainers do medicinally to the horse while it's in their barn that has radically changed from the claiming game that used to exist. Dutrow is gone because of this, other trainers on the "watch" list are Jacobson, Rodriguez and Navarro, among others......
I understand what you're saying, but I can't totally agree with you. Dutrow's record of fines and suspensions was almost unheard of, it's amazing he didn't get kicked out sooner. Since Jacobson came back to training, he does not have an alarming amount of infractions. As for someone like Navarro, Jacobson's horses do not miraculously improve over night like that. In fact, he immediately drops many of his horses right off the claim, or two starts off the claim, so many of his wins are with horses that he did not actually improve, he just dropped them down.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:11 AM   #50
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"These aren't cars, they are flesh and blood animals. That is the difference. Jacobson treats them like cars."

Exactly right CJ. But it isn't just Jacobson.

The "system"...
Would-be trainers are "trained" that to be successful in "the business" RULE #1 is "Never fall in love with your horse" because they are nothing more than business inventory. This advice is repeated in any number of publications designed to educate prospective horse racing trainers. To regard horses as "inventory" is, and has long been, the dominant modus operandi in the business of horse racing.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:11 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by pandy
I understand what you mean, but he is simply doing something that is A), legal, and B), has been done for decades by hundreds of trainers in both harness and thoroughbred racing, and probably quarter horse racing, although I don't follow that sport. That's how you play the claiming game. You claim a horse and once you think you've gotten as much out of it as you can you drop the horse down and hope someone claims it from you.

Jacbonson doesn't do that with his most successful claims. He rests the horse, then brings them back and keeps winning.
He uses new rules and a purse level/claiming price ratio that weren't in place decades ago. He is playing a different game than the one trainers played in the past. Legal, yes, ethical, debatable at best.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:13 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Appy
"These aren't cars, they are flesh and blood animals. That is the difference. Jacobson treats them like cars."

Exactly right CJ. But it isn't just Jacobson.

The "system"...
Would-be trainers are "trained" that to be successful in "the business" RULE #1 is "Never fall in love with your horse" because they are nothing more than business inventory. This advice is repeated in any number of publications designed to educate prospective horse racing trainers. To regard horses as "inventory" is, and has long been, the dominant modus operandi in the business of horse racing.
It is a model that needs to change. It isn't acceptable in the real world in 2015. In racing, sure, because the sport is always 30 or 40 years behind.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:25 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by pandy
I understand what you're saying, but I can't totally agree with you. Dutrow's record of fines and suspensions was almost unheard of, it's amazing he didn't get kicked out sooner. Since Jacobson came back to training, he does not have an alarming amount of infractions. As for someone like Navarro, Jacobson's horses do not miraculously improve over night like that. In fact, he immediately drops many of his horses right off the claim, or two starts off the claim, so many of his wins are with horses that he did not actually improve, he just dropped them down.
If his claims don't respond to the "meds" immediately, what other options does he have but to drop the horse? Jacobson looks for potential "med-tweaks" of horses he sees as profitable claims, a real gamble of other people's money and the soundness of the horse.......I'm obviously not a fan of his.

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Old 01-02-2015, 11:25 AM   #54
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Jacobson takes advantage of the antiquated claiming system and treats horses like commodities, not animals. It is the system that enables him. Getting rid of Jacobson would be a joke.

Just fix the system. There is no reason for claiming races any longer if people truly care about horses.
You have made this statement many times on this forum, what are some of the changes you would like to see? No more claiming races is something that will never happen in this industry but there are ways to "protect" buyers from this type of catastrophic claim it is called claiming insurance. Some tracks have it others need it. Those who are good at the claiming game don't bother claiming off certain trainers. The old addage is and always will be "buyer beware".
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:31 AM   #55
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Give me some facts. Baffert had all of those horses die while they were in his care. Some trainers have dozens of drug positives...etc.

This petition shows that Jacobson's horses break down at a rate that is lower than the national average. It's misleading and doesn't prove a thing.

My main concern regarding trainers is whether or not they are doing something illegal. Are they using illegal substances to gain an unfair advantage? That is the main question that the industry needs to address regarding trainers. All this other stuff is conjecture.

Some people are trying to suggest that Jacobson doesn't take care of his horses. That can't be because he is one of the most successful trainers in the business, and if you don't feed and take good care of racehorses, they won't win.

I'm not trying to defend this guy. I just don't like unsubstantiated nonsense.
But you ARE defending him, Pandy. In another Jacobson thread here not too long ago, you even defended his FATHER...when you stated that you covered his trial for some newspaper, and were not impressed by the evidence against "Buddy"...because the damaging testimony came from some unsavory characters.

Am I wrong?
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:31 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by onefast99
The old addage is and always will be "buyer beware".
Right, but should it apply to animals? I think not. They have no say in the matter and pay the price.

I'd like to see claiming races eliminated. There are a lot of ways to do that and that would be a thread of its own, not going to get into it here. If you want to sell a horse, do it privately or publicly, but with a thorough vet inspection.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:34 AM   #57
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But you ARE defending him, Pandy. In another Jacobson thread here not too long ago, you even defended his FATHER...when you stated that you covered his trial for some newspaper, and were not impressed by the evidence against "Buddy"...because the damaging testimony came from some unsavory characters.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are, wrong. I never defended his father. I covered David's trial, not Buddy's. And, yes, I didn't think David was treated fairly. They hated his father, this really hurt him.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:40 AM   #58
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Yes, you are, wrong. I never defended his father. I covered David's trial, not Buddy's. And, yes, I didn't think David was treated fairly. They hated his father, this really hurt him.
Sorry...my mistake. But my opinion still stands that you are defending David Jacobson. There is something despicable about "all-star" trainers racing their crippled horses into the ground...and Jacobson has turned this into a regular (and shameful) practice.

You have your opinions...and I got mine.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:46 AM   #59
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I understand that some people don't think it's ethical to drop horses, or whatever, but my main concern regarding trainers is whether or not they are following the rules. There are trainers who use illegal substances on their horses, those are the ones that bother me. I don't believe that Jacobson fits this profile.

As for Buddy Jacobson, he was despised by the people who ran NY racing because he tried to unionize the backstretch workers, who were severely underpaid and had no benefits. He sold a horse in Maryland and they said that it was an illegal sale so NY racing banned him for 5 years, which was insane. Then, of course, he was convicted of murder. So there was reason to suspect that NY racing officials were biased against Buddy's son. I also think that racial prejudice may have come into play.

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Old 01-02-2015, 12:20 PM   #60
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Right, but should it apply to animals? I think not. They have no say in the matter and pay the price.

I'd like to see claiming races eliminated. There are a lot of ways to do that and that would be a thread of its own, not going to get into it here. If you want to sell a horse, do it privately or publicly, but with a thorough vet inspection.
Start that "thread of it's own".
Aren't claiming races the lone factor that keeps horse racing from being "the sport for ONLY kings"?
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