Psychology of Thoroughbred Handicapping

[banacek]

A new book called "Psychology of Thoroughbred Handicapping" coming out next month. Could be a bit different. I've seen it on ebay and this site:

http://www.psyhorse.com/

[GameTheory]

Oooh...another one with "credentials". When this one comes out, let's criticize it publicly, or do something dastardly like offer to give it away if you pick the right number. Then we can see if his own psychology is that of an adult or a child by measuring the amount he freaks out.

I'm rooting for ya, doc!

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by GameTheory

Oooh...another one with "credentials". When this one comes out, let's criticize it publicly, or do something dastardly like offer to give it away if you pick the right number. Then we can see if his own psychology is that of an adult or a child by measuring the amount he freaks out.

I'm rooting for ya, doc!

Excellent!
Dr. Wilson would appreciate it set up like one of those great mandatory Psych 101/grad student experiments.

Quote from ch. 3
'Computing devices certainly can be effective tools for recording data, producing indexes, and summarizing statistics, but all the judgment and decision making involved in thoroughbred handicapping must remain a truly human activity.'

I think the Bill Benter's of the world and probably some guys on this board can dispute this claim.
The author gets somewhat of a pass from me though, he got his PhD at my alma mater.

[Hosshead]

After being suckered into buying a book last year (subject of a million posts on PA, also written by a "Doc", lets make that a small d = "doc") that was composed of telling the many ways to lose at the track, ....this book couldn't be any worse, even if the fricken pages were blank !

In which case it would still be good for scratch paper. Unlike the "book" I paid $35 for.

[banacek]

Originally Posted by Hosshead

After being suckered into buying a book last year (subject of a million posts on PA, also written by a "Doc", lets make that a small d = "doc") that was composed of telling the many ways to lose at the track, ....this book couldn't be any worse, even if the fricken pages were blank !

In which case it would still be good for scratch paper. Unlike the "book" I paid $35 for.

Well, I never fell for that book. I initially asked if anyone had read it, but it became abundantly clear that it wasn't worthwhile.(But if the author had any sense of marketing, I might have fell for it too)

Now, this book I have already ordered - I am too intrigued by the Table of Contents, not to give it a shot.

Things like: The Psychology of Failure, Habits of a Winner , The Wager Frame, What First Comes to Mind is Most Likely, The First Guess Sets an Anchor.

Those got me - now whose the sucker - so I'm taking a shot. This kind of stuff always reels me in. Hey, I bought "Zen and the Art of Horseplaying" and actually liked it!

Well, it isn't being released until mid-March, but I'll give a review after I've read it.

[banacek]

Originally Posted by Wiley

Quote from ch. 3
'Computing devices certainly can be effective tools for recording data, producing indexes, and summarizing statistics, but all the judgment and decision making involved in thoroughbred handicapping must remain a truly human activity.'

I think the Bill Benter's of the world and probably some guys on this board can dispute this claim.
The author gets somewhat of a pass from me though, he got his PhD at my alma mater.

I agree with you on Benter. But there aren't many Benters.

And I think most of us (I may be wrong) use the computer to analyze the data, but make a lot of the decisions ourselves, including different approaches with the software. I do. (Or have I missed the proverbial black box software for sale somewhere) The difference in those decisions is the user's judgement and decision-making skills. Or as HSH's Dave Schwartz said in a different thread:

"Or maybe a particular piece of software gets different picks for different users because they use different approaches"

My 2 cents.

[timtam]

A dime a dozen but the dime is $10. whew i guess i better check out

the rest of the pages cause if 10 cents is really ten dollars than ..........

[Overlay]

Originally Posted by banacek

Hey, I bought "Zen and the Art of Horseplaying" and actually liked it!

Not to nitpick, but in case anyone else is trying to find that title (like I was just now after reading banacek's post), it's "Zen and the Successful Horseplayer" by Frederic Donner.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by Overlay

Not to nitpick, but in case anyone else is trying to find that title (like I was just now after reading banacek's post), it's "Zen and the Successful Horseplayer" by Frederic Donner.

Over, I took note that you have a voluminous library of published handicapping material. What would you consider to be a couple of the worst or most laughable of the lot?

[Overlay]

To put your comment in a positive light (and as I think I mentioned in another thread on this subject about two years ago), I try to gain something of value out of any handicapping text I read. But the title that proved the biggest challenge for me in that regard was (I'm going by memory here) The New Complete Handicapper's Manual by R. Randolph Reynolds. (This book may have been published under other, slightly different titles, as well.) I don't mean to come down too hard on it (especially since I believe I recall his son posting a tribute to his now-deceased father here on the board at one time). It wasn't so much what Mr. Reynolds said (or didn't say), but the style in which he wrote, and particularly the intermittent lists of miscellaneous handicapping tips scattered throughout the book (for example, one to the effect of, "Avoid thinking too much. When you have thought too much, you have zigzagged yourself out of a winner. Just accept the mathematically-calculated ratings and believe in them.") As I recall, the main elements he emphasized as signs of an impending win were what he called "breaks" (where a horse showed unexpected early foot and then faded), and the times of the horse's workouts. One of his more interesting ideas was to discount the chances of any horse that either won or finished in the front of the pack its last time out, since that horse had already "run its race". He regarded finishing far back (especially after breaking well) as a sign that a horse had significant room or potential for improvement today.

[banacek]

Originally Posted by Overlay

Not to nitpick, but in case anyone else is trying to find that title (like I was just now after reading banacek's post), it's "Zen and the Successful Horseplayer" by Frederic Donner.

Right! I couldn't remember the exact title. I'm mixing up Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenace - I have that one too. (Okay, now you are all free to ignore my book reviews! Clearly that Banacek is nuts)

But that's the one. He was an ex CIA or FBI agent or something like that.

[The Judge]

I kind of listened to the radio show that was done before the Derby where the good Dr. along with Lauren Stich of pedigree fame both picked Barbaro and Steppenwolfer as their horses to win the Derby ( Wolfer ran 3rd).

He sounded like a sincere man and my very well know his stuff. "PROBLEM" on the show he mentioned how races were run and in essence he said it was a matter of "energy distribution". Now where have I heard that type of talk before? Now we have the "The Pyschology of Thoroughbred Handicapping" again where have I heard that before? Oh yeah the same place "Howard Sartin" and PIRCO.

Although it was talked about at many seminars and on tape etc. there are two manuals that come to mind "The Psychology of Winning: An Introduction To Win Therapy" by Howard Sartin and "Energy: Preliminary Workbook #1 by Howard Sartin and Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw. This was some 20 years ago!

If Dr. Thomas Wilson gives these two men and/or PIRCO there just due in his book then I have no problem ,if he does not then I have a problem.

[banacek]

Originally Posted by The Judge

I Now where have I heard that type of talk before? Now we have the "The Pyschology of Thoroughbred Handicapping" again where have I heard that before? Oh yeah the same place "Howard Sartin" and PIRCO.

Although it was talked about at many seminars and on tape etc. there are two manuals that come to mind "The Psychology of Winning: An Introduction To Win Therapy" by Howard Sartin and "Energy: Preliminary Workbook #1 by Howard Sartin and Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw. This was some 20 years ago!

If Dr. Thomas Wilson gives these two men and/or PIRCO there just due in his book then I have no problem ,if he does not then I have a problem.

I have to respectfully disagree on that part:

I've got the cassettes on the psychology of winning from Sartin (very poor in my opinion) and the Introduction to Win Therapy. There is little that speaks to the races. It is a recap of the truck drivers story for the nth time, a lot of anti gamblers anonymous stuff, and anti psychology establishment stuff, anti "gambling is evil" stuff. Mostly a lot of psychology really not applied to betting the horses. Parent, Victim, Rescuer, Mother, Father, Adapted Child, Free Child etc. Mostly 1st and 2nd year psychology stuff in a very disorganized way.

Now some people have "borrowed" his concepts for picking winners and given him no credit. That I might have a problem with. But as far as the psychological stuff, I don't think they need to worry about crediting him. The little bit in Pizzolla's book or the chapter in "Horse Racing Logic" have been way more usable to me. But that may be just me.

The Cure For Losing is Winning - now that I agree with!

[socantra]

Originally Posted by banacek

I've got the cassettes on the psychology of winning from Sartin (very poor in my opinion) and the Introduction to Win Therapy. There is little that speaks to the races. It is a recap of the truck drivers story for the nth time, a lot of anti gamblers anonymous stuff, and anti psychology establishment stuff, anti "gambling is evil" stuff. Mostly a lot of psychology really not applied to betting the horses. Parent, Victim, Rescuer, Mother, Father, Adapted Child, Free Child etc. Mostly 1st and 2nd year psychology stuff in a very disorganized way.

I'm not exactly sure why you would find it surprising to find a lot of Psychology in a book titled "the Psychology of Winning" and "Introduction to Win Therapy", which was described in the Sartin ads as "A Radical New Treatment for Problem Gamblers through Directed Therapy and Teaching".

Sartin's work was largely straight Eric Berne Transactional Analysis, which was dismissed by a lot of Pschotherapists as "Pop" psychology, but became pretty popular in a number of counseling areas.

socantra...

[DJofSD]

Eric Berne also wrote The Games People Play.