Turf Rail at Gulfstream - Page 2 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

twindouble · 02-26-2006, 11:57 AM

Point of all of this is that it depends on the characteristics of the individual turf courses. I seldom play GP and I've not studied what's happening with their new setup there. It's an area that should pay some dividends to anyone willing to put in the research time. The DRF Formulator "notes" facility is a good place to note rail settings each day for the turf races. Then those notes show up in the "comments" section of the running lines of the horses affected in subsequent PP's. quote rrbauer

I totally agree with what's in bold, any track we play one should get to know it inside and out. I can't comment on Formulator but I'm not one to jump in on many tracks, I try to concentrate one or two at a time. Formulator may very well be the answer when playing many tracks when it comes that kind of information.

T.D.

hurrikane · 02-26-2006, 03:11 PM

so Big,

Sounds more like it's a question of if the rails are moving 'in to out' or 'out to in' more so than whether they are just 'in' or 'out'.

you think?

BIG49010 · 02-26-2006, 05:39 PM

I would agree, I know Arlington does the samething as GP, to save wear on the grass and you get some strange things after they have run over it for 3 or 4 days.

LaughAndBeMerry · 02-26-2006, 06:47 PM

Wouldn't the rail at 72 feet make the turns that much tighter favoring the inside speed horses? I still don't get why a wide course helps the frontrunners.

LBM

JackS · 02-26-2006, 06:52 PM

My impressions of the last two weekends at GP- Downgrade all horses who have not won or finished well from off the pace. Early speed can win but usually at a short price and almost always will be pressed at the finishline.
Wire to wire wins can come from horses who show a preponderence of mid placed trips in their pp's and although a possible wire job today, this horse had the ability to win from off the pace before the race was run.
Bottom line- Find the speed and immediatly downgrade these horses chances. Find the horses that the pp's prove , likes to run past other horses dirt or turf.
Okay now, let's see how this holds up over the next few days before making any drastic changes to prefferences.

karlskorner · 02-26-2006, 08:15 PM

When the rail is set out at 72 feet (yesterday) and 86 feet today, the turns become easier rather than tighter. Go to DRF, look for site map on right side heading, go to Track layout for GP, notice that Turf course is 1 mile, it's 170 feet wide, when you set the rail out 86 feet the arc becomes wider and less strain on the animal. By going to GP's home page. on the right side under scratches and changes there will listed how far the rail is set out for the day.
Of course there is always the question, if the race is carded for 1 mile and the rail is set out at 86 feet, is it still a mile race ?

LaughAndBeMerry · 02-26-2006, 09:34 PM

Thanks Karl.

Then why is it just the opposite in California? Re Gulfstream, the rail at 72 feet effectively lengthens the course so you should have a shorter run-up to the first turn, no? It would seem to me that the shorter run-up would really work against horses in outside posts.

LBM

rrbauer · 02-27-2006, 09:12 AM

Here's what I got from an email from a GP regular regarding the turf course on Saturday:

GP turf course is 120 feet wide (same as Laurel according to him). On Saturday, then had originally carded the 5th race at 1 7/16 miles, same as the 10th. But they had some rain on Friday and didn't want to tear up the surface nearest the permanent rail because of the Breeder's Cup stakes, carded as the 10th. So, they changed the distance of the 5th and didn't take the temp rails down until after that race. Hence, the two rail settings for the day.

twindouble · 02-27-2006, 09:28 AM

Like I said, I wasn't knocking Powell and his stats. Like some here I can't give him a medal for tracking past performances seeing why horses won or lost relative to the rail settings. My point was a simple one, that was changing the configuration of the track would have automatically thrown a flag up for me. What he did is no different than what Boxcar was doing figuring long shot angles giving players food for thought after the fact.

I like Gulfstream as matter of fact prior to me settling in on Mnr that's the track I would play this time of year because many of the trainers and jocks I played here would be there. With all the changes going on, I posted "quote" I'll wait and see how it all plays out. No question Powell's stats will be of some use and including what's said here.

That's it, not much more to consider.

Good luck,

T.D.

karlskorner · 02-27-2006, 09:46 AM

On GP's home page, under About Gulfstream Park, under Facility and Grounds they claim Turf Course is " 170 feet wide " not 120 feet as your friend stated.
Then again whats 50 feet. All I know is when a race is carded for 1 mile and the temp. rail is out 86 feet, it ain't a mile race anymore.

LaughAndBeMerry · 02-27-2006, 09:53 AM

I haven't been watching the position of the gate that carefully. Does anyone know if they're adjusting the run-up for the position of the temp rail?

LBM

twindouble · 02-27-2006, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlskorner

On GP's home page, under About Gulfstream Park, under Facility and Grounds they claim Turf Course is " 170 feet wide " not 120 feet as your friend stated.
Then again whats 50 feet. All I know is when a race is carded for 1 mile and the temp. rail is out 86 feet, it ain't a mile race anymore.

They do move the starting gate, how accurate that placement is can be anyone's guess I would think.

T.D.

karlskorner · 02-27-2006, 11:04 AM

The gate ( as with many tracks ) can be anywhere from 40 to 80 feet back from the light, add that to the distance of the race.

Tom · 02-27-2006, 11:11 AM

Doesn't the race start when the light is tripped?

If the gate is 80 feet back, the horses will be traveling much faster than when it is at 40 feet.

twindouble · 02-27-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlskorner

The gate ( as with many tracks ) can be anywhere from 40 to 80 feet back from the light, add that to the distance of the race.

Yes your right, some time ago I got into that making note at the tracks I was attending but overall it was of no great benifit to me as it turned out. Factoring in a lost or gained time out of the gate just threw me off, the fractions in the form held up better. Granted it's a factor but with me it didn't lead to more profit. I just stopped thinking about it and I was better off and leaned more on getting position out of the gate.

T.D.