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Old 03-08-2018, 04:33 PM   #16
elysiantraveller
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Did you ever give anyone a "why bother" when they were arguing against Obama supporters? And you happened to agree with them?

I don't recall you ever being this snarky...ever...

But it's all good...just curious...
Well I have to walk the fine line of consistency.

Hcap and the Democrats love regulations when its Dodd-Frank, the EPA, CFPB, etc... but they hate them when Trump does it via Tariffs.

Then on the flipside we have people touting economic growth at the cutting of regulations and letting the market do its thing while then turning around and supporting tariffs and market controls the other way...

Take Tom's quote which is 1000% correct:

Quote:
We do know that over-regulating stifles business and costs money.
While that is universally true its only true around these parts depending on which guy you support and which regulations you're talking about.

Strange time indeed.

Last edited by elysiantraveller; 03-08-2018 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:36 PM   #17
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Boxcar...of course! Who else has proven that he is guided by the "Holy Spirit"?
Well...I would never presume to impose my will upon anyone, but hey...a born again Christian filled with the Holy Spirit would make eminently more sense than anyone who is son or daughter of the evil one. After all, "the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men".
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:41 PM   #18
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If that were the case...then both the religious threads here would have been deleted long ago.
Not necessarily. They are the only threads that contain other-worldly views that are viable alternatives to the tired, hackneyed, worn out, broken worldly
ones.
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:19 PM   #19
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......Then on the flipside we have people touting economic growth at the cutting of regulations and letting the market do its thing while then turning around and supporting tariffs and market controls the other way...
I am all for letting the market do its thing provided both sides are playing by the same rules. Is it a "free market" when a country will only take American produced goods after a stiff duty has been charged?
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:51 PM   #20
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cant wait till America starts reaping the rewards from deregulation.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:01 PM   #21
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I am all for letting the market do its thing provided both sides are playing by the same rules. Is it a "free market" when a country will only take American produced goods after a stiff duty has been charged?
Provide examples...

If we're the best provider of those goods that country is just harming itself and it's citizens by charging those duties...

How many countries charge duties on our agricultural goods? I'll bet not many.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:14 PM   #22
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cant wait till America starts reaping the rewards from deregulation.
We already are.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:55 PM   #23
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We already are.

yes, its going to keep getting better and thats great for everyone that likes to win.
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:42 AM   #24
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I ran a shop. Found myself often sympathizing with many I hired. We were a custom shop. Skilled craftsman making expensive furniture and new first time projects.

Saw some awful accidents. Usually a matter of losing attention at as critical moment in the manufacturing process. I rose from the ranks of skilled crafstman but also acquired a technical education, supervising details and doing overall planning of specialty items as well as all projectsd and business direction.

Various machines, from table saws to rooters and heat forming devices, ovens and strip heaters required safety rules, and chemicals used needed understanding of health issues. Yes at times OSHA was a pain and impractical, but there would have been many more accidents without those regulations

Often as new technology advances old rules must be changed. Self interest of the business owner when narrowly focused naturally promotes AVOIDANCE of rules and regulation.

I learned rules and regulation are needed although not always applicable to all situations. Efficiency in creative manufacturing I did must be a balance between the abilities of the worker and the bottom line of the business.

"The Many Faces of Adam Smith"

http://economistsview.typepad.com/ec...ny_faces_.html

"Adam Smith's faith in the invisible hand has been exaggerated by modern commentators. Smith used the metaphor only once in "The Wealth of Nations," applied it narrowly and presented the idea with more than his usual number of caveats."
.................................................. ....

The invisible hand may not be smart enough to move an economy long term when "the law of accident" is stronger. A regulated economy moved us past the horrors of the The Triangle Shirtwaist Factor fire.

My Jewish/yiddish social conscience .......

In New York City on March 25, 1911 was the deadliest industrial disaster in the history of the city, and one of the deadliest in US history.


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Old 03-09-2018, 02:42 AM   #25
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Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triang...t_Factory_fire

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Old 03-09-2018, 07:31 AM   #26
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I ran a shop.

Saw some awful accidents. Usually a matter of losing attention at as critical moment in the manufacturing process.
They were probably poorly supervised or you kept people that should been shown the door.

I supervised hundreds of people in possibly dangerous manufacturing environments and in 20 years of working for the man before becoming self employed no one needed more than a band aid on my watch. I ran a tight ship when it came to safety.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:15 AM   #27
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Insurance premiums alone should do what the regulations were supposed to.

Safety was always Job #1 every day, at every meeting, at every shop floor huddle. Every internal audit I did had a section totally unrelated to the audit-target and devoted to general safety, even auditing accounting.

Safety doesn't add to the profit line, but lack of it can cost you more than you make.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:18 AM   #28
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They were probably poorly supervised or you kept people that should been shown the door.

I supervised hundreds of people in possibly dangerous manufacturing environments and in 20 years of working for the man before becoming self employed no one needed more than a band aid on my watch. I ran a tight ship when it came to safety.
Ever do custom shop work? Use table saws, routers, shapers or industrial ovens? Does not sound like you have.

Employer-Reported Workplace Injuries and Illnesses 2016

There were approximately 2.9 million nonfatal workplace injuries and illnesses reported by private industry employers in 2016, which occurred at a rate of 2.9 cases per 100 full-time equivalent (FTE) workers, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. (See www.bls.gov/web/osh/summ1_00.xlsx
and www.bls.gov/web/osh/summ2_00.xlsx.) Private industry employers reported nearly 48,500 fewer nonfatal injury and illness cases in 2016 compared to a year earlier, according to estimates from the
Survey of Occupational Injuries and Illnesses (SOII).


You know diddly squat.I doubt you ever filled out workers compensation insurgence reports either If you ran a "tight ship" sounds like the Titanic.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:25 AM   #29
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From my experience, a lot of those accidents are the result of employees failing to follow procedures and cutting corners.
When we would try to write up employees for not following the rules, guess who ALWAYS got involved and tried to stop us?

THe UAW.......
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:42 AM   #30
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Ever do custom shop work? Use table saws, routers, shapers or industrial ovens? Does not sound like you have.

Employer-Reported Workplace Injuries and Illnesses 2016

There were approximately 2.9 million nonfatal workplace injuries and illnesses reported by private industry employers in 2016, which occurred at a rate of 2.9 cases per 100 full-time equivalent (FTE) workers, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. (See www.bls.gov/web/osh/summ1_00.xlsx
and www.bls.gov/web/osh/summ2_00.xlsx.) Private industry employers reported nearly 48,500 fewer nonfatal injury and illness cases in 2016 compared to a year earlier, according to estimates from the
Survey of Occupational Injuries and Illnesses (SOII).


You know diddly squat.I doubt you ever filled out workers compensation insurgence reports either If you ran a "tight ship" sounds like the Titanic.

Why don't you ever admit when you have stuck your foot in your mouth?
You said you "ran" the shop, then said you saw some awful accidents mostly caused by inattentiveness. Whose job is it to make sure the workforce pays attention at all times? You are right, I never filled out worker's compensation reports because no one on my watch needed more than a band aid.

I work with metal on the day job which is way more dangerous than woodworking. I have done plenty of woodworking on personal projects. I am positive I have used a lot more dangerous equipment than you have. I am a DIY guy that is pretty unmatched in the wide range of what I have done.
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