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Old 02-07-2018, 09:02 PM   #16
Denny
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Caving?

I wouldn't exactly call it that.

The only good rate they offer is the 15% P5.
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph View Post
A track responded within a reasonable time to a customer driven movement.

This is a historic moment.........
I agree. The first HANA-led boycott worked.

Maybe other tracks out there thinking about raising takeout will reconsider.

Last edited by Redboard; 02-07-2018 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:05 AM   #18
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You guys do realize all the other pools that were raised are still up, right? Talk about a pyrrhic victory. If this is considered a win I'd hate to see what losses look like.
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Old 02-08-2018, 03:19 AM   #19
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If tracks want to draw larger crowds they need more races per day at shorter intervals. A track could have an undercard of, say, seven low level handicap claiming races with larger fields with short intervals between races. The reason to have handicap races is to level the field and make the race competitive. A competitive race should draw larger fields because more entrants will feel they have a chance to win. Then later in the day the last five to seven races could be for high level claiming, allowance, and stakes horses where the fields tend to be smaller. Maybe race three or four days per week rather than six.

Whatever model tracks are using now they need to throw out the window and start over because what they're doing is not working.

It makes sense on the one hand that a bet like the Daily Double has less churn, but on the other hand, if you take time to handicap two races in a row chances are you are betting multiple bets in both races. In effect, the Daily Double can be seen as a loss leader that draws more bets into the pool of the second race.

It would be easy to find out how much effect the Daily Double has on handle. Just eliminate it for about 30 racecards and then measure the difference in handle on the second race compared to days when the Daily Double was offered.

If handle on the second race declines on days when the Daily Double is not offered then it makes sense to lower the takeout on the Daily Double to attract even more wagering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
Rightly or wrongly the presentation by Bill Nader at the Symposium in AZ this past December (mentioned in the article below) is one of the many things we were talking about on the phone yesterday...

By Matt Hegarty
12/05/2017 3:25PM
Symposium panel urges lower takeouts:
http://www.drf.com/news/symposium-pa...lower-takeouts

--this:


--and this:


Imo, racing faces many different issues/challenges.

Imo, empty grandstands are certainly one of those challenges.

But so is ever higher takeout.

And promotion of new jackpot wagers at insanely high net effective takeout rates that result in ever smaller churn.

And odds that change after the bell.

And drugs.

And regulators who are afraid to hand out penalties with teeth.

And horses that barely make six starts per year (when they used to make ten to twelve.)

Imo - all of the above (and more) lead to empty grandstands. And ever shrinking handle numbers.

We have to start somewhere.


-jp

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Last edited by highnote; 02-08-2018 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:56 AM   #20
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This looks a sneaky strategy on the part of Keeneland. You raise takeouts, knowing they will antagonize price conscious bettors. Then later you partially rescind the takeout hikes. Players, having been repeatedly beaten down with oppressive takeouts, believe they have secured a significant victory. However, the end result is Keeneland simultaneously raises takeouts while recreating interest in their product.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:14 AM   #21
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Total victory looks like 20% down or more. We weren't even close to that. I'm surprised they lowered it at all but glad they did on the higher churn wagers. I heard that a certain radio show host implied that Keeneland did us a favor and if true I take strong exception to that. They were hurt financially (revenue would have been up significantly) because those of use who worked everyday to push the boycott did so.

If we want total victory a lot more people have to do a lot more work to make it happen. Pretty hard to make the case to boycott them again while California still has 22% take exactas.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:21 AM   #22
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for 50 years that i know of, you lay $110 to win $100 on football games. they have never gone up. some places actually give you a deal if you bet on a Friday night and give you the juice at $105 to win the $100. why should racing ever go up in their takeout? they are competing with sports gambling for their handle.

i admit that tracks do need more revenue. but to me you get more revenue by building up the product not charging more or giving away more to purses. you build it right back up by doing something stupid, offering up integrity. its pretty simple.
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:48 AM   #23
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Quote:
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You guys do realize all the other pools that were raised are still up, right? Talk about a pyrrhic victory. If this is considered a win I'd hate to see what losses look like.
I almost used the p word yesterday in a question about why they didnt lower the other pools....but I had not looked at the details....didnt want to comment until I heard more.......but I have to tell you Im shocked they did anything at all.
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:51 AM   #24
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I am only betting the pools that have the lower takeout.

I am cheap, what can I say
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:22 PM   #25
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Old 02-08-2018, 07:53 PM   #26
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You guys do realize all the other pools that were raised are still up, right? Talk about a pyrrhic victory. If this is considered a win I'd hate to see what losses look like.
I agree, but they lowered some take out rates, which is borderline shocking
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Old 02-08-2018, 07:57 PM   #27
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I agree, but they lowered some take out rates, which is borderline shocking
They didn't expect the backlash and the bad publicity. I'm surprised they lowered some of it back as well. They'll lower all of it back if someone is smart enough to figure out a way to get them down 20% or 25%. And that goes for any track. We can change the game in a month if people came together.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
They didn't expect the backlash and the bad publicity. I'm surprised they lowered some of it back as well. They'll lower all of it back if someone is smart enough to figure out a way to get them down 20% or 25%. And that goes for any track. We can change the game in a month if people came together.
its too bad people can't work together for the common good, too selfish I guess. It was very difficult for me to boycott this track. I love playing MSW races and they usually have the best along w/Saratoga. Also, no state bred races is a huge plus to me
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:07 PM   #29
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its too bad people can't work together for the common good, too selfish I guess. It was very difficult for me to boycott this track. I love playing MSW races and they usually have the best along w/Saratoga. Also, no state bred races is a huge plus to me
People were fired up during the Ca. boycott in 2011 and that was great. But, after they didn't lower takeout further than the 14% take P5 and the DD's back down to 20% a lot of people gave up and I can't say that I blame them.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:09 PM   #30
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People were fired up during the Ca. boycott in 2011 and that was great. But, after they didn't lower takeout further than the 14% take P5 and the DD's back down to 20% a lot of people gave up and I can't say that I blame them.
I don't play CA, but isnt their handle still going down?
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