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Old 02-07-2018, 10:10 AM   #1
Andy Asaro
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Keeneland caves and lowers takeout. Does the right thing.


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Old 02-07-2018, 10:15 AM   #2
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And a tip of the cap to EVERYONE who participated in the boycott and made enough noise to make this happen.

And a tip of the cap to Jeff Platt and HANA. Without them putting out the press release (that news outlets must cover) this takeout reduction may not have happened.

Sometimes a big kick in the balls works. We ought to do more of that IMO.

Boom!
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:23 AM   #3
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:36 AM   #4
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I see that on social media some people aren't too thrilled with the takeout reduction because they didn't rescind all of the takeout hikes.

It's pretty simple

We didn't knock handle down enough to force all of the changes we wanted. If handle were down 20% or more then they may have rescinded all of the takeout hikes.

Bottom line is that way too many people didn't care about the take hike in the first place or handle would have been down a lot more.
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:52 AM   #5
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A track responded within a reasonable time to a customer driven movement.

This is a historic moment.........
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:09 PM   #6
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Still irks me a bit they didn't totally cave on exactas.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:02 PM   #7
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Imo, doubles should be the same as exacta.


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Old 02-07-2018, 01:22 PM   #8
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Hmmmmm, maybe players do have some power after all. Glad to have done my part, in various outlets.

Think of what could be done if pressure were brought to bear on takeout in general.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
Imo, doubles should be the same as exacta.


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It should, but they consider that you are potentially (if alive) getting two races of action and they are losing churn.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:24 PM   #10
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I was on the phone with them yesterday (ahead of this morning's announcement.)

One of the things they mentioned was Bill Nader's presentation at the AZ Symposium where Nader had suggested the industry had lost its way a bit by forgetting about churn. (And that multi-race bets have a tendency to keep money tied up which reduces churn.)

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Old 02-07-2018, 02:35 PM   #11
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I will be betting Kee Win and Exacta's this spring.

Welcome back Keeneland!
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:41 PM   #12
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I boycotted the whole fall meet.

Looking forward to betting Keeneland again.
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Old 02-07-2018, 04:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
I was on the phone with them yesterday (ahead of this morning's announcement.)

One of the things they mentioned was Bill Nader's presentation at the AZ Symposium where Nader had suggested the industry had lost its way a bit by forgetting about churn. (And that multi-race bets have a tendency to keep money tied up which reduces churn.)

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That is grossly incorrect regarding what Nader "thinks"


Simulcasting is what killed live on track handles and in turn created greed to raise takeout!

No one NEEDS to go to the track anymore to place a bet, unless you are in Texas or AZ, so all ADW operations make a mint due to the current scale of what they get and their low overhead vs the track and all their operating expenses.

A great example is the poorly ran Penn Gaming tracks:

Charles Town Races: they handled "live"

$96.7 million in 2002
$23.8 million in 2016

Total C. Town handle is down $55 million from 2002 to 2016

The state of WV is down $330 million in bets (including greyhounds) from 2002 to 2016

On page three you can see the "state's share" tank from 1978 to 2016 according to the WV racing commission reports.

The industry did it to themselves
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Handle in WV.pdf (127.5 KB, 6 views)
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:47 PM   #14
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some good news, but I'm still a trifecta player first! I will be betting KEE again Thanks to the other boycotters out there and HANA. Those that didn't help-you are welcome!
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstrosFan View Post
That is grossly incorrect regarding what Nader "thinks"...
Rightly or wrongly the presentation by Bill Nader at the Symposium in AZ this past December (mentioned in the article below) is one of the many things we were talking about on the phone yesterday...

By Matt Hegarty
12/05/2017 3:25PM
Symposium panel urges lower takeouts:
http://www.drf.com/news/symposium-pa...lower-takeouts

--this:
Quote:
"It has to start with the industry leaders," said Bill Nader, a former chief operating officer of the New York Racing Association who was also the executive director of racing at the Hong Kong Jockey Club for eight years, ending in 2016. "And they have to make a big leap. This will not work in isolation."

In a larger context, the comments from the panelists could be viewed as an unusually sharp rebuke to Keeneland, the central Kentucky racetrack that drew widespread criticism from the horseplaying community earlier this year when it raised the takeout rates for its bets for the fall meet. All three panelists cited the Keeneland decision while making their remarks, with several taking particular issue with Keeneland’s justification of needing more revenue from wagering to boost purses.
--and this:
Quote:
To optimize the impacts of churn, Gramm and the other two advocates for lower takeout rates said that racetracks needed to prioritize single-race bets such as win, place, show, exacta, and trifecta for the takeout reductions. They also claimed that lowering or maintaining low takeout rates for multi-race wagers like the pick 4 and pick 5, along with jackpot-style bets that only pay out if there is a single winner, is counter-productive, contradicting a handful of recent decisions by racetracks. (Keeneland raised all of its takeout rates with the exception of the pick 5, which it lowered.)
Imo, racing faces many different issues/challenges.

Imo, empty grandstands are certainly one of those challenges.

But so is ever higher takeout.

And promotion of new jackpot wagers at insanely high net effective takeout rates that result in ever smaller churn.

And odds that change after the bell.

And drugs.

And regulators who are afraid to hand out penalties with teeth.

And horses that barely make six starts per year (when they used to make ten to twelve.)

Imo - all of the above (and more) lead to empty grandstands. And ever shrinking handle numbers.

We have to start somewhere.


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Last edited by Jeff P; 02-07-2018 at 07:08 PM.
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