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Old 02-03-2018, 05:08 PM   #46
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That is too much work.

I'll bet show and keep parlaying until I get a large beer.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:31 PM   #47
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That is too much work.

I'll bet show and keep parlaying until I get a large beer.
Exactly, that is why if they do this right and incorporate round robins, they will add to the handle. We wont have to fill out 15 or 20 tickets we just mark round robin, 3 horse parlays in 6 races, mark the horses we like, the bets we want(wps...) and done. I wouldn't think twice on a day I like 3 or 4 horses of putting them in a little round robin. It is a fun action play.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:00 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Poindexter View Post
Exactly, that is why if they do this right and incorporate round robins, they will add to the handle. We wont have to fill out 15 or 20 tickets we just mark round robin, 3 horse parlays in 6 races, mark the horses we like, the bets we want(wps...) and done. I wouldn't think twice on a day I like 3 or 4 horses of putting them in a little round robin. It is a fun action play.
Right. Gotta have a round robin option. But, what do you make of the picture of the bet to lead the thread. It says six wagers so it is a round robin right? It was not this way the last time they had them.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:44 PM   #49
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Right. Gotta have a round robin option. But, what do you make of the picture of the bet to lead the thread. It says six wagers so it is a round robin right? It was not this way the last time they had them.
This is the same interpretation as the one given by Camourous at the start of the the thread. So nothing new here.


The ticket reads as follows

$5 parlay
sh r1 #3
wps r2 #1
sh r3 #3&5

6 bets total $5

So it is clearly a parlay. Now you can't parlay horses in the same race with each other(their bet size could not be determined until after the race and the pools is closed). So the only way to interpret the ticket is that $5 goes on the 3 to show in race 1. Whatever you get back is split 3 ways into win place and show bets on #1 in race 2 and whatever you get back from that is split in 2 and bet on the 3 & 5 in race 3. That is also 6 bets (just like a round robin woud be but a round robin would require the impossible-parlaying 2 horses in one race) and the only way this ticket can make any sense.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Poindexter View Post
This is the same interpretation as the one given by Camourous at the start of the the thread. So nothing new here.


The ticket reads as follows

$5 parlay
sh r1 #3
wps r2 #1
sh r3 #3&5

6 bets total $5

So it is clearly a parlay. Now you can't parlay horses in the same race with each other(their bet size could not be determined until after the race and the pools is closed). So the only way to interpret the ticket is that $5 goes on the 3 to show in race 1. Whatever you get back is split 3 ways into win place and show bets on #1 in race 2 and whatever you get back from that is split in 2 and bet on the 3 & 5 in race 3. That is also 6 bets (just like a round robin woud be but a round robin would require the impossible-parlaying 2 horses in one race) and the only way this ticket can make any sense.
That's the way I see it too. That's a new thing. Last time they had them it was impossible to bet this way.
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Old 02-03-2018, 07:30 PM   #51
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I see a couple of problems with this. For starters, in all but your 1st bet, your betting into blind pools. There are a lot of horses I'd bet at 3-1 but would pass on at 3-5.

If you are successful on your 1st 2 or 3 bets, you could be dumping a large amount at the first flash of the tote for your next race. Probably wouldn't matter too much at SA, but if it were done at Sunland, you might even make a minus pool.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:07 PM   #52
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Forgive me, I'm still trying to figure this out...and why it's superior (??) to betting a parlay manually race by race, where you could stop rolling at any time? Other than losing the ability to wager the odd coins...

What am I missing? It seems like a forced/blind bet for no additional advantage.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:12 PM   #53
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Forgive me, I'm still trying to figure this out...and why it's superior (??) to betting a parlay manually race by race, where you could stop rolling at any time? Other than losing the ability to wager the odd coins...

What am I missing? It seems like a forced/blind bet for no additional advantage.
That is true. But many times you won't put the full amount on the second horse. Had I been able to take some out of my parlay I likely would have won half of what I did win. Additionally people who like to bet in the morning and don't have ADW's like them and of course there is the 6 horse show parlay or combination thereof. There are many times I have a few horses I like that aren't in consecutive races and they win but I miss the horizontals. I would put in a round robin at the beginning of the day with my best three and then do the other stuff. It's another option, it isn't a game changer by any means but it's certainly not harmful to anyone.

The reason it can tie in so well is IF they reduce breakage to a penny it will make WPS wagers more attractive. It all ties into churn with lower take on exactas as well IMO.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:15 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
Forgive me, I'm still trying to figure this out...and why it's superior (??) to betting a parlay manually race by race, where you could stop rolling at any time? Other than losing the ability to wager the odd coins...

What am I missing? It seems like a forced/blind bet for no additional advantage.
because you can't make a bet for $3.20 ??
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:29 PM   #55
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because you can't make a bet for $3.20 ??
That's all I can think of.

I do a lot of show (sometimes place) parlays when at the track in person with a group.

We all toss in a set amount and then one person picks one horse in 1st race and if we win the next person can either crap out or roll it all over to his pick. ANd then so on. At DMR two summers ago, we had it up to a 6 winner (show) in a row and friend #7 had a nice chunk of $$$ to bet and he got weak-kneed and we cashed out and enjoyed some libations and food...only to see his theoretical pick finish 2nd at 21-1.

Any loose change on our tickets we'd save for the end and cash them, never more than a couple bucks' worth of rounding error.
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:04 PM   #56
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Yeah, it is not really a good bet at all if it is using the straight pool takeouts, and really how else could it be done? The only advantage is that you get to pick the race to parlay. But from a takeout perspective, it is dreadful. Lets look at a simple P3 in SoCal. Win takeout is 15.43, P3 takeout is 23.68. Lets assume each winner had 20% of a 50,000 pool bet on it in each leg. These are the mythical payoffs:

Pick 3: $190.80
Parlay: $148.00

That is quite a premium to pay for picking you own races.

No thanks.
The problem I have with so many of the comments regarding this wager is that the wager is treated as an either/or type of bet when it does not need to be. If someone likes a 15/1 in race 1 and a 15 /1 in race 7 and they walk into the racetrack and bet a $2 parlay, the "wager police" are not going to follow them around and make sure that they cannot bet any other wager.

One of the best handicappers I ever met was a dapper (he wore a suit and hat to the racetrack every day!) older gentleman named Mr. Rice who was a former professional baseball player with the Birmingham Black Barons. Every day, the very 1st thing he would do is make out a $2 parlay card of his 4 or 5 best plays (always ending with his last play to show). He would then proceed to make his other bets throughout the day. In his later years, I would drive him to and from the racetrack. I was amazed at how many times he would take his parlay wager up to the window after the last race of the day and cash out for hundreds of dollars.

It was an additional wager that he made every day for only $2!

It was not a wager that restricted him from making other wagers (multi-race or otherwise) throughout the day.

IMO, this can be a great wager if not viewed as a comparison versus other wagers. It more like an additional tool in the arsenal that can have a very low risk (in dollars) and that potentially has some high rewards especially if one is primarily focusing on their "price horses of the day"
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:48 AM   #57
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This is a great thing as a first step to adding value.

I've been pushing to bring back parlays since they were taken away in 2007. In 2012 I proposed they bring them back at Hollywood Park with a bonus on net winnings for parlays of 3 to 6 horses. But Nooooooooooo. Ritvo now wants to do something similar which is great IMO.

I’d go 10% bonus on net profit for a three and four horse parlay

15% bonus on net profit for a 4 and 5 horse parlay

And 20% bonus on net profit for any 6 horse parlay

And there are more specific details to be worked out since they are really separate WPS bets.

There are smarter people than me on the board who would probably have a better idea than mine on how to pay the bonuses and how much they should be.

Additionally he proposed this:

I'm not one to sell a ticket when I have a shot to make a good score but I know a lot of people do. But I would imagine there are times when it makes sense. Be interesting to see if it's legal. Another innovative idea.

The big ones will be paying penny breakage and reducing exacta takeout to 16.5% if they have the guts. Only then will you be able to sell it as a gambling game of skill to the public. Churn Baby Churn.

Last edited by Andy Asaro; 02-09-2018 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:36 PM   #58
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All tracks should offer parlays. It's not really a big deal is it?
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:58 PM   #59
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Forgive me, I'm still trying to figure this out...and why it's superior (??) to betting a parlay manually race by race, where you could stop rolling at any time?
From a mathematical standpoint, hedges and passes of +EV bets because you are ahead are terrible. I know why players do it, but they shouldn't.

So to the extent that an automatic parlay forces you not to bail on a good bet because you have too much riding on it, you can argue that's a good thing for some players.
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:37 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Poindexter View Post
This is the same interpretation as the one given by Camourous at the start of the the thread. So nothing new here.


The ticket reads as follows

$5 parlay
sh r1 #3
wps r2 #1
sh r3 #3&5

6 bets total $5

So it is clearly a parlay. Now you can't parlay horses in the same race with each other(their bet size could not be determined until after the race and the pools is closed). So the only way to interpret the ticket is that $5 goes on the 3 to show in race 1. Whatever you get back is split 3 ways into win place and show bets on #1 in race 2 and whatever you get back from that is split in 2 and bet on the 3 & 5 in race 3. That is also 6 bets (just like a round robin woud be but a round robin would require the impossible-parlaying 2 horses in one race) and the only way this ticket can make any sense.
I'm agreeing with you here.
This is potentially 6 bets, but it starts off as one $5 wager.

The only part that remains questionable is whether, or not,
breakage is allowed to roll on the parlay (which I doubt),
or your remaining funds are rounded down to the nearest $2 increment.

A novelty, for sure.
Not one that will set the pari-mutuel wagering world buzzing, though.
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