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Old 02-03-2018, 12:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
Screw parity and screw the newbie???? How is the game supposed to grow? Having an information edge is one thing but having a skill edge, a bankroll edge, a massive rebate edge, and a personal tote edge kinda goes against the spirit of parimutuel wagering. Skill and luck are supposed to determine the winners. There should be one takeout rate for everyone. Having said that I don't blame anyone who gets them but I do take issue with the opinion that those getting them are entitled to them.
ENTITLED? Nobody's entitled.

Do you think these CRW's were just handed the technology to make it work? The software just magically appeared after they decided to go CRW?

No. Not quite.

SKILL EDGE and BANKROLL EDGE have ALWAYS been around.

REBATES? They are a part of a game and until they're not, you either have to find a way to get some (and most anyone can these days). As for "personal tote edge," I don't even know what that means anymore. If you're another one talking about these guys having access to pool data nobody else has access too, I've yet to see or hear of conclusive proof on that one.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:16 PM   #62
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You've said this many times...but you've never specified what exactly WE have done...to make this game so "inhospitable" for these "newcomers"...who are just DYING to get in this game?
He's painting everyone with a broad brush thinking he knows all of us.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:19 PM   #63
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Give the "Whale" all the rebates that he wants...but have him enter his bets one at a time, like the rest of us do. And if he still insists to place his wagers at the last second, then...more power to him.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:19 PM   #64
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Back in the days of Ruffian, track management was wringing its hands worried about attracting more newbies...more young people...exactly as it is today, forty+ years later...

There were no rebates back then...no simulcasting even...certainly no CRWs...no possible access to mysterious pool data nobody else has....

Wonder how far back Haskin must travel in time to think about these salad days he wants to return us to, despite ourselves and our ruinous ways...

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Old 02-03-2018, 12:21 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Give the "Whale" all the rebates that he wants...but have him enter his bets one at a time, like the rest of us do. And if he still insists to place his wagers at the last second, then...more power to him.
More than a few of the ADWs I've opened accounts with in the last 5-10 years has some sort of batch-upload/betting function, where you can place a ton of wagers insanely faster than you could ever enter them by hand.

You don't have access to ADWs? The newbies don't either?
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:21 PM   #66
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Any pari mutual game that offers two different effective takeout rates is not a game I would ever endorse getting into, unless you have the capital to be the one getting the lower rate.

This game is so unattractive to newer players that it takes about a week for someone new to figure it out and run the other way.

But what the sport is doing is working for them, I suppose, or they wouldnt keep on doing it, right?
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:25 PM   #67
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ENTITLED? Nobody's entitled.

Do you think these CRW's were just handed the technology to make it work? The software just magically appeared after they decided to go CRW?

No. Not quite.

SKILL EDGE and BANKROLL EDGE have ALWAYS been around.

REBATES? They are a part of a game and until they're not, you either have to find a way to get some (and most anyone can these days). As for "personal tote edge," I don't even know what that means anymore. If you're another one talking about these guys having access to pool data nobody else has access too, I've yet to see or hear of conclusive proof on that one.
Are you allowed to batch 500 different wagers...and place them all at the touch of a button, at the last second of the wagering period? If the "Whale" has such a privilege...then why shouldn't WE? Every time I try to place my bet at the last second, my bet is refused...while the horses stay in the gate for another 5+ seconds.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:28 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
ENTITLED? Nobody's entitled.

Do you think these CRW's were just handed the technology to make it work? The software just magically appeared after they decided to go CRW?

No. Not quite.

SKILL EDGE and BANKROLL EDGE have ALWAYS been around.

REBATES? They are a part of a game and until they're not, you either have to find a way to get some (and most anyone can these days). As for "personal tote edge," I don't even know what that means anymore. If you're another one talking about these guys having access to pool data nobody else has access too, I've yet to see or hear of conclusive proof on that one.
Of course they have a personal tote with pool data given to them by the various ADW's if they bet enough. And by bet enough I mean a lot more than a million in churn. That's a fact.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:28 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Are you allowed to batch 500 different wagers...and place them all at the touch of a button, at the last second of the wagering period? If the "Whale" has such a privilege...then why shouldn't WE? Every time I try to place my bet at the last second, my bet is refused...while the horses stay in the gate for another 5+ seconds.
Hey, maybe you're right. Maybe these CRWs have some sort of secret setup with every track they place a wager with, and it goes something like this:

Their Acme2000 CRW software is somehow able to intercept the stewards pressing the "betting closed" button right before the race goes off, and then is able to upload all of its bets in front of the signal...because that's basically what has to happen for your scenario to be true. Do you think that's what is happening?

Or maybe the stewards are linked up via text message and won't close the wagering until they get the AOK from all the CRW teams?

What exactly do you think is happening that these guys are supposedly getting their bets in when you can't?
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:31 PM   #70
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Of course they have a personal tote with pool data given to them by the various ADW's if they bet enough. And by bet enough I mean a lot more than a million in churn. That's a fact.
I have a personal tote with every single ADW I belong to. So do you. Tells me nothing when you use that incendiary language. I can also use all sorts of PERSONAL TOOLS I have written ON MY OWN to analyze the pool data that nobody else has. Should that be taken away from me? I didn't get those tools from the ADW.

And what is this secret pool data that they are holding back for their best clients? There are more than a few guys on here who have owned or have worked in upper levels of ADWs that could confirm or deny such a thing to me in private.

That has yet to happen.

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Old 02-03-2018, 12:33 PM   #71
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I have a personal tote with every single ADW I belong to. So do you. Tells me nothing when you use that incendiary language.

And what is this secret pool data that they are holding back for their best clients? There are more than a few guys on here who have owned or have worked in upper levels of ADWs that could confirm or deny such a thing to me in private.

That has yet to happen.
What incendiary language? I don't know what to tell you as far as not knowing about people being given a personal tote (yes, someone here should be able to explain it better than me.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:34 PM   #72
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What incendiary language? I don't know what to tell you as far as not knowing about people being given a personal tote (yes, someone here should be able to explain it better than me.
The whole sentence is incendiary...trying to tell us that there is all this super-secret stuff that these guys are getting from ADWs that hardly anybody else has access to...the use of the term "Personal Tote" especially.

I've had a "Personal Tote" since the days of sitting at the Aqueduct restaurant using a TINY TIM machine...

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Old 02-03-2018, 12:36 PM   #73
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The whole sentence is incendiary...trying to tell us that there is all this super-secret stuff that these guys are getting from ADWs that hardly anybody else has access to...
It's not super secret. It's an edge that most of us don't have access to.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:39 PM   #74
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Why don't these ADWs forego all this silly nonsense and just tell these guys who is going to win the race before it goes off...they must be that good from what you're saying.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:43 PM   #75
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Hey, maybe you're right. Maybe these CRWs have some sort of secret setup with every track they place a wager with, and it goes something like this:

Their Acme2000 CRW software is somehow able to intercept the stewards pressing the "betting closed" button right before the race goes off, and then is able to upload all of its bets in front of the signal...because that's basically what has to happen for your scenario to be true. Do you think that's what is happening?

Or maybe the stewards are linked up via text message and won't close the wagering until they get the AOK from all the CRW teams?

What exactly do you think is happening that these guys are supposedly getting their bets in when you can't?
I think the Whales have the sort of "access" to all the exotics pools that allows their betting software to find wagering "anomalies"...while I have to place most of my exotics wagers "blind". And I also think that these Whales are able to cancel bets after the race starts. Do you have concrete proof that can put these concerns of mine at ease?
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