Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Handicapping Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 01-15-2018, 07:50 PM   #16
castaway01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,702
Rep Power: 14 castaway01 is a jewel in the roughcastaway01 is a jewel in the roughcastaway01 is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racey View Post
is good anybody recommend any other of his books
The novel "Scared Money" incorporates some of the same stories mentioned in the article with other Cramer handicapping while telling a decent story. It's somewhat dated but still worth a read.
castaway01 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-16-2018, 12:33 PM   #17
classhandicapper
Registered User
 
classhandicapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 14,036
Rep Power: 29 classhandicapper will become famous soon enoughclasshandicapper will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
Although Cramer has "rules" to everything, I think he needs it that way to test
I agree. I'm not sure how else you can test effectively.

I try to put together rules that mimic my thinking the best I can and test that. The hope of course is that adding in some subjective analysis later will improve the results. But to be honest I'm not sure it always does unless you test every single insight you think you have. My rules spit out a horse over the weekend as a prime play. I didn't play it because there was a lot of speed in the race and this horse looked like he wanted the lead. He won and I didn't collect the $12.40 So who knows for sure if my analysis in this case added value or not.
__________________
"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned." Fast Eddie Felson

Last edited by classhandicapper; 01-16-2018 at 12:45 PM.
classhandicapper is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-16-2018, 06:16 PM   #18
Denny
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
Rep Power: 0 Denny will become famous soon enough
Thanks for starting this thread.

Enjoyed reading the article.

Just borrowed a copy of "Value Handicapping" to read.
Denny is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-16-2018, 07:21 PM   #19
cnollfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 1,280
Rep Power: 15 cnollfan is on a distinguished road
Mark Cramer was a very influential handicapper for me. Thoroughbred Cycles changed the way I look at a horse's form for good.
cnollfan is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-17-2018, 10:37 AM   #20
reckless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 3,859
Rep Power: 23 reckless is just really nicereckless is just really nicereckless is just really nicereckless is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnollfan View Post
Mark Cramer was a very influential handicapper for me. Thoroughbred Cycles changed the way I look at a horse's form for good.
I always thought Thoroughbred Cycles was the best book on handicapping ever written.
reckless is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-17-2018, 10:51 AM   #21
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 3,164
Rep Power: 21 GMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckless View Post
I always thought Thoroughbred Cycles was the best book on handicapping ever written.
I have all his books and in general thought they were well down with many interesting ideas.

I used to be a bigger proponet of form cycles, also having read stuff from handicappers like Cary Fotias (sp).

Then I started using pace figures and realized what was hard to explain and often attributed to going off form or "bouncing" was in fact easily explained with the pace context.

A recent example was Majestic Heat last weekend, who ran a very weak 4th I believe and never made a closing move but the pace was so abhorrently slow that only horses of great magnitude would have won the race with that setup.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-17-2018, 10:34 PM   #22
Waquoit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 Waquoit is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
Kinky Handicapping II is a grat one - lots of really good angles in that one.

Is there a Kinky Handicapping II or is that a typo.? I have the original.
Waquoit is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-19-2018, 08:10 AM   #23
ARAZI91
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 63
Rep Power: 3 ARAZI91 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waquoit View Post
Is there a Kinky Handicapping II or is that a typo.? I have the original.
Think it was Kinkier Handicapping and quite hard to obtain last time i looked.
ARAZI91 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-19-2018, 08:16 AM   #24
ARAZI91
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 63
Rep Power: 3 ARAZI91 is on a distinguished road
Cramer

I love the Guy - Im in UK and Nick Mordin's Betting For A Living turned a lot of us onto US Handicapping texts - concepts at the time were totally alien to most but through time we adapted. Cramer's been a big influence on how i look at the game and most of my angles are approached via "Spirit Of Cramer"
Still some good stuff on here -
http://markcramercx.blogspot.co.uk/2...4_archive.html

Last edited by ARAZI91; 01-19-2018 at 08:21 AM.
ARAZI91 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-19-2018, 01:50 PM   #25
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 3,164
Rep Power: 21 GMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the rough
Didnt realize I had so many of his books, just looked at the shelf

Thoroughbred Cycles
The Odds Must be Crazy
Scared Money
Value Handicapping
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-19-2018, 01:52 PM   #26
thaskalos
The Sleeper Must Awaken
 
thaskalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,599
Rep Power: 43 thaskalos is a splendid one to beholdthaskalos is a splendid one to beholdthaskalos is a splendid one to beholdthaskalos is a splendid one to beholdthaskalos is a splendid one to beholdthaskalos is a splendid one to beholdthaskalos is a splendid one to beholdthaskalos is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
Didnt realize I had so many of his books, just looked at the shelf

Thoroughbred Cycles
The Odds Must be Crazy
Scared Money
Value Handicapping
The Odds Must Be Crazy is a Len Ragozin book.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-19-2018, 02:27 PM   #27
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 3,164
Rep Power: 21 GMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
The Odds Must Be Crazy is a Len Ragozin book.
thanks, ur right
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2018, 10:38 PM   #28
SPEEDHORSE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 0 SPEEDHORSE is on a distinguished road
AN AMERICAN IN PARIS

The book title is ODDS ON YOUR SIDE. I really enjoyed reading this book.
SPEEDHORSE is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-29-2018, 12:54 PM   #29
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 3,164
Rep Power: 21 GMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the roughGMB@BP is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEEDHORSE View Post
The book title is ODDS ON YOUR SIDE. I really enjoyed reading this book.
yea, let me see if I can find it.

I am now re-reading his Thoro Cycles book. I want to see how outdated some of the concepts are with the "Sheets" style training that takes place.

I can tell you he does write with style, the preface in that book should be read once a year as a handicapping reminder.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-02-2018, 08:37 AM   #30
blackandtanstable
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 5
Rep Power: 0 blackandtanstable is on a distinguished road
Kinkier Handicapping

There is a follow up to "Kinky Handicapping" and I was one of the handicappers featured in the book. I agree with this thread in that Thoroughbred Cycles was his best work. One of the most influential books to how I see the game. The C&O report was a periodical from that period that had great writing from Mark, Joe Colville and others. Joe's essays were the best writings about horse racing I've ever seen. Mark Cramer once said if there was an Eclipse Award for writing about handicapping, Joe should win every year. Cheers.
blackandtanstable is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Reason for drop off...
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2018 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved -- Best Viewed in a modern browser @ 1280x720 Resolution Or Higher
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.