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Old 11-03-2018, 02:59 PM   #1
Threechimes
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Arizona Downs

Wanted to get a take on why this group bought old Yavapai Downs. For anybody not familiar with this story here is some background. Earlier this year 2018 a group bought Yavapai Downs which to my knowledge has been dormant since 2010. They paid 3.3 million for the property . They have done some nice renovations to the existing grandstand inside and outside. The track itself is in disarray . Going to need resurfacing and there is no tote board . Northern Arizona racing has failed many times . I would actually say that Arizona racing in a whole is a complete failure unless your cup of tea is 2-4k claimers.

I've been down there for simulcasting a few times now and it actually is a great outlet for such activities but I'm 100% failing to see the bigger picture. Casinos in Arizona are run by the Native Americans and there is zero chance this place would get a casino. Sports wagering is also a huge Longshot in Arizona and if it did come to fruition the existing Native casinos would be a favorite to control it. Any new forms of gambling offered by the state has to be approved by the casinos or they can severly cut there tax obligations to the state.

Arizona got rid of dog racing and Harness racing is banned from the state . You can't even watch harness racing through tvg as they block it out. So back to the question at hand . What am I missing here? There is zero chance this place ever turns a profit on horse racing alone . They are currently fighting with Turf Paradise and won't share signals . So betting on Turf Paradise is not even an option while sitting at Arizona Downs . Also to make matters worse . Santa Anita and Gulfstream will not be offered at any Arizona Downs off tracks because the Stronach group has a partnership with Turf Paradise.


I wish them luck but this place is destined to fail without some serious thought into how they can interest people in a market that has never succeeded.
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:07 PM   #2
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According to Wikipedia,
"In 2018, the facility was purchased for $3.22 million in bankruptcy court by J&J Enterprises, LLC. It was announced on June 20 that the facility would reopen under the new name of Arizona Downs, with the intent to resume simulcasting later in the summer and live racing in the summer of 2019.[1] Arizona Downs has expanded its footprint in Arizona by opening off track betting locations in Flagstaff, Lake Havasu City and two OTB sites in Phoenix."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Downs
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:16 PM   #3
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Also I must note that two out of the three times I've been there . About Ten people total including employees where in the building. So why invest in a Horse track when most owners are attempting to sell tracks?

The saddest part of Arizona Horse racing is are bordering state New Mexico is flourishing with many tracks . Yet we are relegated to Turf Paradise? A run down building with no upside. Once again please explain to me who is going to want to race for non inflated purses in 100 degree weather and monsoons .

Last edited by Threechimes; 11-03-2018 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Threechimes View Post
Also I must note that two out of the three times I've been there . About Ten people total including employees where in the building. So why invest in a Horse track when most owners are attempting to sell tracks?

The saddest part of Arizona Horse racing is are bordering state New Mexico is flourishing with many tracks . Yet we are relegated to Turf Paradise? A run down building with no upside. Once again please explain to me who is going to want to race for non inflated purses in 100 degree weather and monsoons .
Not sure 100 degrees would be the norm in the summer.

I think its a good question. With the indian casinos controlling gambling in the state, even likely in the near future when gambling becomes legal everywhere, its hard to envision this is a move with that in mind.

Racing should be able to flourish here, there is perfect near year round weather between the valley and mountain tracks. The demographics should support it. But with the takeout rates the highest in the country there is no reason for anyone to play these tracks.
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:44 PM   #5
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I work there, work closely with the owners and am surrounded by about 75 people in the OTB here at the moment. We have just opened 4 OTB'S across the state in the last four weeks and are very much looking forward to our meet in 2019. Check out our FB page: www.facebook.com/arizonadownsracetrack

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Old 11-03-2018, 03:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Threechimes View Post
Wanted to get a take on why this group bought old Yavapai Downs. For anybody not familiar with this story here is some background. Earlier this year 2018 a group bought Yavapai Downs which to my knowledge has been dormant since 2010. They paid 3.3 million for the property . They have done some nice renovations to the existing grandstand inside and outside. The track itself is in disarray . Going to need resurfacing and there is no tote board . Northern Arizona racing has failed many times . I would actually say that Arizona racing in a whole is a complete failure unless your cup of tea is 2-4k claimers.

I've been down there for simulcasting a few times now and it actually is a great outlet for such activities but I'm 100% failing to see the bigger picture. Casinos in Arizona are run by the Native Americans and there is zero chance this place would get a casino. Sports wagering is also a huge Longshot in Arizona and if it did come to fruition the existing Native casinos would be a favorite to control it. Any new forms of gambling offered by the state has to be approved by the casinos or they can severly cut there tax obligations to the state.

Arizona got rid of dog racing and Harness racing is banned from the state . You can't even watch harness racing through tvg as they block it out. So back to the question at hand . What am I missing here? There is zero chance this place ever turns a profit on horse racing alone . They are currently fighting with Turf Paradise and won't share signals . So betting on Turf Paradise is not even an option while sitting at Arizona Downs . Also to make matters worse . Santa Anita and Gulfstream will not be offered at any Arizona Downs off tracks because the Stronach group has a partnership with Turf Paradise.


I wish them luck but this place is destined to fail without some serious thought into how they can interest people in a market that has never succeeded.
Well, I work here...and there are lots of plans for the future with experienced and respected racetrack management in position who are more than up to the task. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye right now and we hope to have the simulcast situation sorted shortly.

Dennis Moore will be overseeing the track renovation early in 2019. You can see early work on it at www.arizonadowns.com

If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me: britishracecaller@gmail.com and I will direct them to the right people for you.

Disclaimer: What i post does not represent the official views of Arizona Downs.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:11 PM   #7
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Good luck, Craig.
Nice of you to keep the players updated.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by craigbraddick View Post
Well, I work here...and there are lots of plans for the future with experienced and respected racetrack management in position who are more than up to the task. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye right now and we hope to have the simulcast situation sorted shortly.

Dennis Moore will be overseeing the track renovation early in 2019. You can see early work on it at www.arizonadowns.com

If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me: britishracecaller@gmail.com and I will direct them to the right people for you.

Disclaimer: What i post does not represent the official views of Arizona Downs.


Population between Prescott and Prescott Valley is around 88,000 total. We sit 92 miles from Phoenix with 1.6 million . What you are saying Craig is that because they have great management that some how they will reinvent the wheel?

The track itself sits way out in the middle of nowhere at the very least the old track in Prescott was basically downtown and did attract a good crowd but I digress that was 20 years ago. I would be interested to hear some of the ideas they have to fill seats at the track. I read they plan on racing 2 days a week? That is a huge problem right there . If they race on Saturdays and Sundays that could attract people to the facility but would severely destroy any simulcast revenue because competing against a better racing product on the weekend would be utter disaster . If they chose to race during the week say Tuesday and Wednesday . Nobody would come to the facility yet they would garner a good portion of the hard core track dollar if timed correctly between class D east coast tracks.

I assure you the weather will be a problem for them . Prescott Valley from June through August will have day time highs in the 90's with high humidity . I just fail to see any upside with this project. Yeah OTB's are great and they will end up with around 20-25 of them but they make no money. Paying a teller $12.00 an hour and having to lease the space or share the revenue when three guys are wagering $20.00 each is not a millionaire maker.

Yes I can understand you have 75 people at track today . Its Breeders Cup Day . I still say with 75 people they lose money today . That's before any horses are brought and operating costs sky rocket

Last edited by Threechimes; 11-03-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:31 PM   #9
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Population between Prescott and Prescott Valley is around 88,000 total. We sit 92 miles from Phoenix with 1.6 million . What you are saying Craig is that because they have great management that some how they will reinvent the wheel?

The track itself sits way out in the middle of nowhere at the very least the old track in Prescott was basically downtown and did attract a good crowd but I digress that was 20 years ago. I would be interested to hear some of the ideas they have to fill seats at the track. I read they plan on racing 2 days a week? That is a huge problem right there . If they race on Saturdays and Sundays that could attract people to the facility but would severely destroy any simulcast revenue because competing against a better racing product on the weekend would be utter disaster . If they chose to race during the week say Tuesday and Wednesday . Nobody would come to the facility yet they would garner a good portion of the hard core track dollar if timed correctly between class D east coast tracks.

I assure you the weather will be a problem for them . Prescott Valley from June through August will have day time highs in the 90's with high humidity . I just fail to see any upside with this project. Yeah OTB's are great and they will end up with around 20-25 of them but they make no money. Paying a teller $12.00 an hour and having to lease the space or share the revenue when three guys are wagering $20.00 each is not a millionaire maker.

Yes I can understand you have 75 people at track today . Its Breeders Cup Day . I still say with 75 people they lose money today . That's before any horses are brought and operating costs sky rocket
Prescott Downs was a dangerous place to ride.

I believe Pat Day may have got his first win there.

Not sure why you are so negative about their endeavor. Its not easy to make it horse racing, at any venue.

I hope it works out for them, no matter how tall the odds are.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:34 PM   #10
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Threechimes:

Thank you for your comments.

Many thanks,

Craig.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:35 PM   #11
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Prescott Downs was a dangerous place to ride.

I believe Pat Day may have got his first win there.

Not sure why you are so negative about their endeavor. Its not easy to make it horse racing, at any venue.

I hope it works out for them, no matter how tall the odds are.
Thanks for your good wishes GMB@BP!

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Old 11-03-2018, 04:43 PM   #12
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Prescott Downs was a dangerous place to ride.

I believe Pat Day may have got his first win there.

Not sure why you are so negative about their endeavor. Its not easy to make it horse racing, at any venue.

I hope it works out for them, no matter how tall the odds are.

Not trying to be negative although I do see how it can be perceived that way. My questions are basic in nature and I am trying to sort out what the value is here. It could be as simple as 4 super wealthy guys who just want to own a track or as interesting as they have some sort of inside knowledge on how to do something many have attempted but failed at
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:02 PM   #13
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Not trying to be negative although I do see how it can be perceived that way. My questions are basic in nature and I am trying to sort out what the value is here. It could be as simple as 4 super wealthy guys who just want to own a track or as interesting as they have some sort of inside knowledge on how to do something many have attempted but failed at
And you wouldn't expect someone who works for them to discuss that on an internet forum. There are plenty of on the record answers to those questions by going through the minutes of commission meetings. However, I am not going to discuss future plans until they are public knowledge. And I am sure that is the same for your employer or your position if you are the owner of your own company.

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Old 11-03-2018, 07:35 PM   #14
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And you wouldn't expect someone who works for them to discuss that on an internet forum. There are plenty of on the record answers to those questions by going through the minutes of commission meetings. However, I am not going to discuss future plans until they are public knowledge. And I am sure that is the same for your employer or your position if you are the owner of your own company.

Regards,

Craig.

That's the funny part . I would expect someone who works for them to certainly explain to me why I should give them my wagering dollar as opposed to the otb that's within walking distance of my front door or why I should even leave my house and use TVG.

Sadly enough I don't think you do work for them. What I think is you are running handicapping contests and making yourself visible by announcing races off the television in the hopes that they will give you your tenth shot at an announcing job in the states .

If you did work for them you wouldn't have put the disclaimer at the end of your post.

What I hope would happen here would be a discussion on possible motives for buying and reopening a track that has not failed once but twice. So while I will respect your opinion Craig I sort of suspected you to pop in here and give your two cents .

Last edited by Threechimes; 11-03-2018 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 11-03-2018, 07:57 PM   #15
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That's the funny part . I would expect someone who works for them to certainly explain to me why I should give them my wagering dollar as opposed to the otb that's within walking distance of my front door or why I should even leave my house and use TVG.

Sadly enough I don't think you do work for them. What I think is you are running handicapping contests and making yourself visible by announcing races off the television in the hopes that they will give you your tenth shot at an announcing job in the states .

If you did work for them you wouldn't have put the disclaimer at the end of your post.

What I hope would happen here would be a discussion on possible motives for buying and reopening a track that has not failed once but twice. So while I will respect your opinion Craig I sort of suspected you to pop in here and give your two cents .
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