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Old 10-03-2017, 01:57 AM   #16
thaskalos
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Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses View Post
You an take a peak here at HT:

https://horsetourneys.com/leaderboard
In the heads-up tournament featured in the above link...the winner wagered $32.00 and collected $13.80...during the contest's 8 races. And yet, in spite of his .43 ROI...he walked away with the tournament's $1,500 prize. In my own play...I would have had $15.20 after only 2 races, by selecting a 1/2 choice in the 1st...and a 9/5 choice in the 2nd.

This may be just what I am looking for.
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
In the heads-up tournament featured in the above link...the winner wagered $32.00 and collected $13.80...during the contest's 8 races. And yet, in spite of his .43 ROI...he walked away with the tournament's $1,500 prize. In my own play...I would have had $15.20 after only 2 races, by selecting a 1/2 choice in the 1st...and a 9/5 choice in the 2nd.

This may be just what I am looking for.
The results of that MNR card were abnormally chalky, but this scenario happens frequently. It's not usually quite that pronounced, though. If you'll scan the leaderboard regularly you'll see quite a few 8-race tournaments that are won by less than $32, the total of the hypothetical WP bets.

For that particular MNR card, the win mutuel of all 8 races paid a combined $46, for an average of $5.75.

I didn't scan all of the MNR results, but one of the highest winning tournament scores I saw for the same set of races was $47.70. This was in a $9 entry fee "pool-style" pick-and-pray contest with 36 players. The winner received $143.37 for his efforts. He had 6 winners in the 8-race contest.

For perspective, that $47.70 winning score could probably have been matched by one 16/1 shot (w/p).
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:41 AM   #18
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Which is the best "contest site" for me to join...if I want to play strictly heads-up tournaments?
With derbywars you lay 11 to win 9 in head to head contest, may mot be the take you want to battle. You much be much better than the average opponent to come out ahead overall, and there are some pretty good players on derbywars. ( this take drops a little as your wager size increases)

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Old 10-03-2017, 03:31 PM   #19
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With derbywars you lay 11 to win 9 in head to head contest, may mot be the take you want to battle. You much be much better than the average opponent to come out ahead overall, and there are some pretty good players on derbywars. ( this take drops a little as your wager size increases)
I looked into a couple of these sites...and your above post isn't accurate. The take doesn't just "drop a little as your wager size increases"...it gets cut to about half. The $100 contest requires a $55 investment...and that's a take of less than 10%. You can't do better than this in a "skill game"...IMO.
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
I looked into a couple of these sites...and your above post isn't accurate. The take doesn't just "drop a little as your wager size increases"...it gets cut to about half. The $100 contest requires a $55 investment...and that's a take of less than 10%. You can't do better than this in a "skill game"...IMO.
This is what I noticed as well.

I suppose the difference is the quality of the competition though compared to the general rate of takeout pari-mutually and the cheaper games/higher takeout.

Hope I stated that clearly.

In essence a higher take is ok if I am competing against a 5 year old which would offset having to play against someone like you for a lower take.

I would imagine as price goes up so does competition level.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:39 PM   #21
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I looked into a couple of these sites...and your above post isn't accurate. The take doesn't just "drop a little as your wager size increases"...it gets cut to about half. The $100 contest requires a $55 investment...and that's a take of less than 10%. You can't do better than this in a "skill game"...IMO.

Look a little closer here, you lay 55 to get $100, not 105 as you would think, so you lay 55 to win 45. Care to refigure the take? Isn't laying 11 to win 9 or 55 to win 45 the same take?

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Old 10-03-2017, 06:45 PM   #22
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Look a little closer here, you lay 55 to get $100, not 105 as you would think, so you lay 55 to win 45. Care to refigure the take?
The site "takes" $10 out of a $110 pool. What's the take?
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:18 PM   #23
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around 9.1%. About double what you lay with normal sportsbetting odds on a football game this weekend. 9% is huge on a 50/50 bet. So you need to win around 55% of your tourneys to break even. Can you win 60-65% or more? Most of these guys, when you are playing for higher stakes, are pretty good.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:23 PM   #24
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The point is no one should have to provide, nor submit any tax info just to get a single withdrawal under $600
This is McKay at HT. It's a perfectly reasonable policy, and a prudent one, for a few reasons:

(1) The AMOUNT of the withdrawal should never be the impetus for submitting taxpayer information in the case of tournaments. Since a 1099 is required for net withdrawals over $600 (i.e., withdrawals net of deposits) for the calendar year, a player can achieve that without requesting a single withdrawal over $600. If we don't get it when we do, we have to chase you down at the end of the year. The tax rules aren't the same rules as PM. Therefore, we have to have it upfront

(2) It allows us to confirm state residency, which we need to do for compliance purposes

(2) It's a major fraud deterrent. Fraudsters don't usually like to submit W-9 information. This is especially important for us since we offer some deposit types like e-checks and ACH that aren't instantly confirmable.

Any ADW site requires you to submit your SS# upon registration. So we asking for it prior to your first withdrawal can't be onerous.

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Old 10-03-2017, 07:25 PM   #25
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Interesting tidbit on the bottom of the rules page:

Purchase agreements are between the Customer and Old Northeast Limited:
72 High Street
Haslemere Surrey
United Kingdom
GU27 22A

One of our credit/debit payment processors is based overseas. So is DW's. This is not at all unusual as most domestic banks that offer processing services don't handle this space anymore. It's completely inconsequential/meaningless to the customer; we're simply required to post that notice. Our business has always been based in the US.

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Old 10-03-2017, 07:27 PM   #26
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One question for those that use these sites is there an incentives based on how much you play?

For example with TVG I get free pp's and other rewards, same with DRF bets.

Is there anything with the contest sites?
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
One question for those that use these sites is there an incentives based on how much you play?

For example with TVG I get free pp's and other rewards, same with DRF bets.

Is there anything with the contest sites?
Horsetourneys gives you PPs. Those are the only perks I know of.

If there are others I want them
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:12 PM   #28
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This is what I noticed as well.

I suppose the difference is the quality of the competition though compared to the general rate of takeout pari-mutually and the cheaper games/higher takeout.

Hope I stated that clearly.

In essence a higher take is ok if I am competing against a 5 year old which would offset having to play against someone like you for a lower take.

I would imagine as price goes up so does competition level.

A very good point.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:30 PM   #29
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around 9.1%. About double what you lay with normal sportsbetting odds on a football game this weekend. 9% is huge on a 50/50 bet. So you need to win around 55% of your tourneys to break even. Can you win 60-65% or more? Most of these guys, when you are playing for higher stakes, are pretty good.
I don't understand. In my prior post, I said that the takeout was less than 10%...and you disagreed. You brought up something about betting $55 to win $45...and you told me to "take a closer look"...and to "refigure" my takeout calculation. Now you agree with me that the takeout is less than 10%...and you are telling me that 9.1% is too much.

Is it that hard to admit that you made a mistake in your first takeout assessment?
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:58 PM   #30
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I don't understand. In my prior post, I said that the takeout was less than 10%...and you disagreed. You brought up something about betting $55 to win $45...and you told me to "take a closer look"...and to "refigure" my takeout calculation. Now you agree with me that the takeout is less than 10%...and you are telling me that 9.1% is too much.

Is it that hard to admit that you made a mistake in your first takeout assessment?
I stand corrected, you were correct in your takeout figure. Is it a good deal? I guess that depends on what % of the tournaments you can win.
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