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Old 11-06-2017, 11:22 AM   #61
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:45 AM   #62
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Oh, well, there you go.
Someone said on twitter.
Must be true.

Is this guy your a quoting some kind of "Pie man"?
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:54 AM   #63
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More fun with carefully selected numbers.

The richest 1% will get half the Trump tax cuts. Duh! The richest 1% pay half of all federal income taxes.

Last I saw, about 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax. I'm surprised the geniuses on Twitter aren't whining about them not getting any benefit from the tax bill.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:58 AM   #64
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I can assure you that from top to bottom, this GOP bill is a joke. FWIW.

But my real gripe these days is the lack of any sort of financial acumen by those discussing this tax bill by many people in the media, especially the business media.

Anyone playing the 'tax cuts for the rich' game... or the 'rich will benefit the most game', yada yada yada, simply is clueless on our Constitution and history. And that includes those that play the dumb politically expedient angle often played by people like Donald Trump (sad to say) and Warren Buffett (a lifelong phony) when they say: 'I'm a billionaire and all my wealthy friends say we aren't taxed enough; that we have enough money ...' Stupidity to that effect.

What is being ignored is this... regardless of an individual person's wealth or income, it is both unfair and un-American for government to decide that one person must be taxed differently than another person. If we really are a country where all 'men are created equal', then this tax bill must be denounced and a true honest tax overhaul must be enacted.

It should not matter if a person makes $1 million a year or $10,000 a year, that money belongs to the individual citizen. They earned it, whatever the amount. The individual should be taxed at the same rate and by the same tax laws, equally. Money --wealth, income, hard assets, cash-- is a product of the sovereign individual's work alone and not of the government.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:51 PM   #65
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I can assure you that from top to bottom, this GOP bill is a joke. FWIW.
I completely disagree. The bill does a tremendous job of starting the process of simplification and reform. When I read the bill I was surprised at how comprehensive it is. There is a lot of complaining because the bill takes away so many of the goodies that people have taken advantage of for so many years.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:59 PM   #66
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I completely disagree. The bill does a tremendous job of starting the process of simplification and reform. When I read the bill I was surprised at how comprehensive it is. There is a lot of complaining because the bill takes away so many of the goodies that people have taken advantage of for so many years.
I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, of course, but you say this bill is 'starting the process ...' Andy, for 50 + years the GOP has run on a platform of being the party of less, low and a simple tax system. Just like the ObamaCare 'repeal' scam... the GOP simply refuses to get legislation passed on issues that were their core issues for many years.

This bill was done primarily to get the Senate to shoot it down, and by extension, to make Trump look bad. That's what the GOP thinks anyway, that it will be Trump who will look bad. The GOP will be in for a rude awakening come 2018.

How much of 'tax reform' was thought through by the GOP or even 'comprehensive' when they didn't make the tax 'cuts' retroactive? They even had an out loud thought about cutting the amount of deduction after a 401(k) contradiction. Are they kidding?

This goes way beyond the GOP just being stupid.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:57 PM   #67
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:21 PM   #68
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Oh yes, Vox.com - the final word on everything.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:47 PM   #69
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Oh yes, Vox.com - the final word on everything.
Why are you attacking a source/story critical of the tax plan when you posted this in the same thread?

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If the GOP is solidly behind passing this, them I am worried. they are never 100% behind the people, only themselves. Sounds like a rush job for talking points and nothing of any substance for us. Where is the sound, well thought out plan they had 8 freaking years to design?
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:48 PM   #70
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I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, of course, but you say this bill is 'starting the process ...' Andy, for 50 + years the GOP has run on a platform of being the party of less, low and a simple tax system. Just like the ObamaCare 'repeal' scam... the GOP simply refuses to get legislation passed on issues that were their core issues for many years.

This bill was done primarily to get the Senate to shoot it down, and by extension, to make Trump look bad. That's what the GOP thinks anyway, that it will be Trump who will look bad. The GOP will be in for a rude awakening come 2018.

How much of 'tax reform' was thought through by the GOP or even 'comprehensive' when they didn't make the tax 'cuts' retroactive? They even had an out loud thought about cutting the amount of deduction after a 401(k) contradiction. Are they kidding?

This goes way beyond the GOP just being stupid.
The process means unwinding all of the social engineering and feel-good statutes that permeate the IRC. there are so many sacred cows in the IRC that making a wholesale change could never fly politically. The House bill is a good start to turning things around.

Making tax cuts retroactive is easy if you are only considering rates. Because of the changes to actually computing taxable income it is unrealistic to make it retroactive. Also very unfair to people who planned based on a system in place.

Most people would be far better off to fund their 401-K plans with after tax dollars and have all withdrawals be tax free. The problem is that many people need a big carrot to save any money for retirement. The change would have been a timing issue giving the government more taxes upfront but certainly losing more taxes on the back end.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:52 PM   #71
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I love this line. "The poorest families, earning less than $10,000 a year, would see a minuscule tax cut of only $10 on average, or 0.1 percent of income."

Any family earning $10,000 per year is not paying any taxes, ever! They are receiving welfare via the earned income tax credit. By gosh they deserve a tax cut too!
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:32 PM   #72
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I love this line. "The poorest families, earning less than $10,000 a year, would see a minuscule tax cut of only $10 on average, or 0.1 percent of income."

Any family earning $10,000 per year is not paying any taxes, ever! They are receiving welfare via the earned income tax credit. By gosh they deserve a tax cut too!
It's only fair.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:37 PM   #73
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If I read the bill correctly the only change for gambling losses would affect professional players. Under current law professional gamblers can create a net operating loss by deducting their costs of gambling. Costs include internet, racing forms, travel, etc. The change would treat all costs as gambling losses subject to the gambling winnings limitation.
This link has some more details on section 1305, which I would interpret the same way you did. What I don't understand is the projected $100M in additional "revenue" from the change. Since gamblers, professional or otherwise, would need to show a profit on a regular basis, I can't believe this loophole is used that much.

http://www.statesman.com/news/nation...0tqOOBSDLxlEP/

Maybe the whales change their LLPs or C-corps every few years?
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:11 PM   #74
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This link has some more details on section 1305, which I would interpret the same way you did. What I don't understand is the projected $100M in additional "revenue" from the change. Since gamblers, professional or otherwise, would need to show a profit on a regular basis, I can't believe this loophole is used that much.

http://www.statesman.com/news/nation...0tqOOBSDLxlEP/

Maybe the whales change their LLPs or C-corps every few years?
The author kind of missed the point of the law change. It doesn't apply at all to "other miscellaneous deductions" which limits deductions only to gambling losses. Ancillary costs of gambling cannot be deducted and never could as an itemized deduction. The law hits squarely on professional gamblers. The damage was already done to the amateurs via the expanded standard deduction. Thankfully the new reporting and withholding regulations will minimize the damage from the standard deduction.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:24 PM   #75
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Well, I didn't read it yet, but are all winnings still supposed to be reported on page 1?
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