Angel Cordero JR

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Yeah, but isn't that how we build our horses to watch lists?

Oh yes and then when we pound them back, they rate more, go wider and lose by more

And we create our super horses to watch list

[Broad Brush]

Great topic for a post EMD!!!

Angel was my hero when I was 12 or 13.

I was stuck at Thistledown but I always followed NY racing and he was
a one of a kind.

One of my favorite memories of Angel was when he came to Thistle
to ride Colonel Moran in the Ohio Derby in 1980. He had just run third
in the Preakness behind Codex and Genuine Risk and was 2/5 I think.
I liked/bet a horse named Stone Manor who came from Arlington with a
jockey I was not that familiar with in 1980. He was listed in the program as
"Patrick Allen Day". It was a rainy day and a sloppy track. Colonel Moran was a front runner and he went to the front from the start. "Patrick" had Stone Manor 2nd and he snuck up the inside of Angel going down the backside.

Always
had binoculars back then and I could see Angel coming over and they were bumping. This "Patrick Allen" guy was having none of it and was bumping back. Stone Manor pulled away thru the stretch and won by 3 or so.
I think he paid $14. As I ran down to the winner's circle I was worried
about Angel claiming foul. At Thistle the jockeys weigh out on the side of where the horses pose for the picture and then they must walk by that to get
back to the room. Angel walked up to "Patrick Allen" and shook his hand with
a big smile. To Angel that was just good hard race riding. Foul? What Foul?

I don't remember what NY trainer made the quote but it summed up
Angel and his talent/style. He was asked why he always tried to get Angel
on his horses when he would leave them next time if he had a better mount.
He said: "Because not only is he riding my horse....he is not riding against me".

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Oh yes and then when we pound them back, they rate more, go wider and lose by more

And we create our super horses to watch list

I love those back to back against the bias super horses to watch lists.

[dilanesp]

I'm inclined to say Shoemaker is the best rider that I ever saw (and of course, Shoemaker was, among other things, responsible for the Exceller-Seattle Slew race that was mentioned upthread), but I loved Cordero. We didn't see a lot of him here in California, but he was often brilliant when he was here. My favorite was when he won the Santa Anita Handicap on Broad Brush in a ding-dong battle with Ferdinand. Ferdinand was a better horse than Broad Brush before that race, and was also a better horse than Broad Brush after that race. But somehow Cordero got 150 percent out of BB and won the race by a nose, beating Shoemaker.

I was too young to remember first hand his rides on Bold Forbes, but they sure look great on tape. And opening a 7 length lead on the backstretch and wiring the Derby field on Spend a Buck was spectacular.

The one time I really remember him screwing up, badly, in California was on Groovy in the 1987 BC Sprint. He let Patrick Valenzuela get out in front of him on Very Subtle. He either underestimated Valenzuela, underestimated Very Subtle (who had won back at Saratoga in the summer and who Cordero should have known something about), or both. Cordero burned a ton of bettors' money in that race.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I love those back to back against the bias super horses to watch lists.

And then sometimes, we get the 3 times super choked against the bias and kept in the main track (while others are on inner track), triple super kaduper horses to follow.

By then we're either broke or too scared or too dizzy (like Mike Tyson after Buster Douglas whacked him good) and we watch the horse win by 3 at 14/1 WHILE others are choked out, kept wide on a gold rail speed biased track. (and we're too densitized to make notes on THOSE horses as it's now an infinite domino of horses to follow ).

In case someone doesn't know, I was kidding the whole way

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

In case someone doesn't know, I was kidding the whole way

Only half way.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Only half way.

Yes, I admit it

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Broad Brush

Great topic for a post EMD!!!

Angel was my hero when I was 12 or 13.

I was stuck at Thistledown but I always followed NY racing and he was
a one of a kind.

One of my favorite memories of Angel was when he came to Thistle
to ride Colonel Moran in the Ohio Derby in 1980. He had just run third
in the Preakness behind Codex and Genuine Risk and was 2/5 I think.
I liked/bet a horse named Stone Manor who came from Arlington with a
jockey I was not that familiar with in 1980. He was listed in the program as
"Patrick Allen Day". It was a rainy day and a sloppy track. Colonel Moran was a front runner and he went to the front from the start. "Patrick" had Stone Manor 2nd and he snuck up the inside of Angel going down the backside.

Always
had binoculars back then and I could see Angel coming over and they were bumping. This "Patrick Allen" guy was having none of it and was bumping back. Stone Manor pulled away thru the stretch and won by 3 or so.
I think he paid $14. As I ran down to the winner's circle I was worried
about Angel claiming foul. At Thistle the jockeys weigh out on the side of where the horses pose for the picture and then they must walk by that to get
back to the room. Angel walked up to "Patrick Allen" and shook his hand with
a big smile. To Angel that was just good hard race riding. Foul? What Foul?

I don't remember what NY trainer made the quote but it summed up
Angel and his talent/style. He was asked why he always tried to get Angel
on his horses when he would leave them next time if he had a better mount.
He said: "Because not only is he riding my horse....he is not riding against me".

Broad Broash, awesome stuff. EXACTLY what I was looking to hear. Untold stories like this

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

My dad, who never bet jockeys told me many a story of always betting cordero in the last race and bailing out many times. I guess cordero to my dad was what Ramon was to me (the only jockey that ever mattered).

My father told me, that when he briefly met Cordero (late 70s / early 80s?), he greeted Cordero with "Angel, You are the best."

I asked if that was his real opinion or if it was just something cool/nice to say, and he said that was his opinion.

I can't vouch that my father was correct.
I can't claim his opinion is 'infallible', but he had an above average eye for sports, and he loved horse racing. That's my story on a jock that was a bit before my time.

[pandy]

Cordero was probably the best I've seen, but since I lived in NY and went to the track a lot, I didn't get to see Shoe, Pincay, and the other west coast riders.

Cordero got a lot out of a horse and was very good from the gate, but he was also a very rough rider who would put other riders in tough spots. He was a very tactical rider in that way, always keeping an eye on the horse he thought he had to beat. He got a lot of suspensions. So did Eddie Arcaro, who was before my time.

Herve Filion, one of the all time greatest harness drivers, was a lot like Cordero in that he also tried to drive more than one horse in a race. He boxed guys in, pushed them wide, cut them off, all of the same things that Cordero did.

[EasyGoer89]

[YT=""]cKraM1tooYA[/YT]

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I'm inclined to say Shoemaker is the best rider that I ever saw (and of course, Shoemaker was, among other things, responsible for the Exceller-Seattle Slew race that was mentioned upthread), but I loved Cordero. We didn't see a lot of him here in California, but he was often brilliant when he was here. My favorite was when he won the Santa Anita Handicap on Broad Brush in a ding-dong battle with Ferdinand. Ferdinand was a better horse than Broad Brush before that race, and was also a better horse than Broad Brush after that race. But somehow Cordero got 150 percent out of BB and won the race by a nose, beating Shoemaker.

I was too young to remember first hand his rides on Bold Forbes, but they sure look great on tape. And opening a 7 length lead on the backstretch and wiring the Derby field on Spend a Buck was spectacular.

The one time I really remember him screwing up, badly, in California was on Groovy in the 1987 BC Sprint. He let Patrick Valenzuela get out in front of him on Very Subtle. He either underestimated Valenzuela, underestimated Very Subtle (who had won back at Saratoga in the summer and who Cordero should have known something about), or both. Cordero burned a ton of bettors' money in that race.

Very Subtle was a faster horse early, Pine Tree Lane was real quick also, but lacked stamina ,that race unfolded pretty much to form, if you were making accurate pace figures. Cordero was well aware by then of how well speed did in sprints at both Hollywood and Santa Anita he just didn't have the horse.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

[/b]Very Subtle was a faster horse early, Pine Tree Lane was real quick also, but lacked stamina ,that race unfolded pretty much to form, if you were making accurate pace figures. Cordero was well aware by then of how well speed did in sprints at both Hollywood and Santa Anita he just didn't have the horse.

I actually bet Very Subtle (she paid good!). I didn't have pace numbers but I did know how fast she was. But I was still surprised (and happy) when Cordero took back.

[classhandicapper]

Those were some serious sprinters.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

[/b]Very Subtle was a faster horse early, Pine Tree Lane was real quick also, but lacked stamina ,that race unfolded pretty much to form, if you were making accurate pace figures. Cordero was well aware by then of how well speed did in sprints at both Hollywood and Santa Anita he just didn't have the horse.

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I actually bet Very Subtle (she paid good!). I didn't have pace numbers but I did know how fast she was. But I was still surprised (and happy) when Cordero took back.

I was doing my own Beyer's back then and that was my basis for the pace figures. I lived in Southern California 45 miles east of Santa Anita at the time. It appears you lived in the area also and if you remember at the time the local OTBs and tracks did not do full card simulcasting yet of East Coast tracks only the occasional feature event. Full East Coast froms were no where to be found. I frequently went to Aqua Caliente in Tijuana Mexico
If you ever went they did full card simulcasting from quite a few tracks. Just going on a Sunday I could usually get enough issues to make variants for the major East Coast tracks.

I was quite studious in that era in my late 20's I was ahead of my time. Unfortunately poor money management left me with small overall returns, I made money back then but probably $5k a year with my hobby instead of the $20k+ it should have been. I typically could not pass a race and quite often it not ahead by a significant amount would bet it all on the last race, even if there were no stand outs.