The $12M Pegasus World Cup Thread

[Garyinseattle]

This will be a one and done race. It's going to be an absolute joke of a race. If they get Arrogate there is a good possibility of a 6 horse field. Who wants to enter this race to run 3rd? If Arrogate doesn't go then you will have a boring race with CC win by probably 10+ lengths vs a field of horses who have no business running vs CC. The people who bought into this disaster for a million a clip are going to take a decent loss as the handle and attendance will be nothing special.

If Stronarch wasn't so much of an ego maniac he could have taken the 30 million he spent on that ugly chunk of metal in the parking lot and perhaps put it towards revamping GP to be able to handle a BC crowd.

As far as the undercard? Someone else posted it on here, but it's basically 4 minor stakes races which will not draw any big players.

Hopefully in 2018 he ditches this moronic idea and brings back The Donn Hdcp.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by Garyinseattle

This will be a one and done race. It's going to be an absolute joke of a race. If they get Arrogate there is a good possibility of a 6 horse field. Who wants to enter this race to run 3rd? If Arrogate doesn't go then you will have a boring race with CC win by probably 10+ lengths vs a field of horses who have no business running vs CC. The people who bought into this disaster for a million a clip are going to take a decent loss as the handle and attendance will be nothing special.

If Stronarch wasn't so much of an ego maniac he could have taken the 30 million he spent on that ugly chunk of metal in the parking lot and perhaps put it towards revamping GP to be able to handle a BC crowd.

As far as the undercard? Someone else posted it on here, but it's basically 4 minor stakes races which will not draw any big players.

Hopefully in 2018 he ditches this moronic idea and brings back The Donn Hdcp.

Couldn't agree more.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Woodbine ran harness and tbreds at the same time.

Didn't some track (perhaps Gulfstream?) once run a dirt and turf race simultaneously with the horses running in opposite directions. Another crazy Stronach idea.

[wisconsin]

Originally Posted by bobphilo

Didn't some track (perhaps Gulfstream?) once run a dirt and turf race simultaneously with the horses running in opposite directions. Another crazy Stronach idea.

That was Calder. World's fastest daily double.

[Frost king]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

That was Calder. World's fastest daily double.

Also Canterbury has runs a race where they run dirt and turf at the same time.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by Garyinseattle

This will be a one and done race. It's going to be an absolute joke of a race. If they get Arrogate there is a good possibility of a 6 horse field. Who wants to enter this race to run 3rd? If Arrogate doesn't go then you will have a boring race with CC win by probably 10+ lengths vs a field of horses who have no business running vs CC. The people who bought into this disaster for a million a clip are going to take a decent loss as the handle and attendance will be nothing special.

If Stronarch wasn't so much of an ego maniac he could have taken the 30 million he spent on that ugly chunk of metal in the parking lot and perhaps put it towards revamping GP to be able to handle a BC crowd.

As far as the undercard? Someone else posted it on here, but it's basically 4 minor stakes races which will not draw any big players.

Hopefully in 2018 he ditches this moronic idea and brings back The Donn Hdcp.

The twelve slots have already been sold. As far as I know there is no refund if you don't run a horse. So why would only six horses run? If you think the people that bought into this will take a decent loss, it will be much worse if they don't enter any horse in the race. They would have no way to recoup a single penny.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Runhappy won't make it. Already retired to stand stud at Claiborne for $25k. Plus he gets to take up Secretariat's old stall too.

[Garyinseattle]

Originally Posted by therussmeister

The twelve slots have already been sold. As far as I know there is no refund if you don't run a horse. So why would only six horses run? If you think the people that bought into this will take a decent loss, it will be much worse if they don't enter any horse in the race. They would have no way to recoup a single penny.

Most of the people who bought in don't own any horses that would run in the race. I guess they thought they could "flip" the entry and make some good money. Well, that ain't happening. They will be stuck with the entry or have to give it away to someone who has a horse that could run in exchange for a cut of profits if the horse runs 1-4. . Problem is, CC looks unbeatable. If Arrogate goes as well then for sure they will have problems filling the other slots.

As far as recouping money? They get a cut of the revenues and handle I believe. So they will get something back. So they could actually eat the entry and still get something back. Again though, problem is with two horses like CC and Arrogate so far ahead of anyone else, they will have problems finding other horses to run.

Great purchase buy the owner of Runhappy though.......what an idiot.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

At least the BC has 13 World Class races held over 2 days.

Pegasus Day will have..... 1? Maybe?

There will be 2 or 3 other Graded Stakes races, but it will undoubtedly be watered down fields.

The BC had maybe 8 world class races. The others aren't deserving of eithe the purse or grading. But I get your point. Still, it won't be nearly as expensive, and don't see the issue anyway since I bet most plan to watch elsewhere anyway. Take a family of 4 to a nighttime movie and buy popcorn and drinks and you've just spent $100.

I don't understand the incessant negativity. We need new ideas like this, which reward the older division, to work.

I'm coming to think that while I understand why they put it where they did on the calendar, that it's going to have to move to be successful. The ones who don't do well in the BC are retiring anyway, even though they planned earlier to go to this race (Runhappy, Frosted, etc). I think it's going to have to move to May/June perhaps, where the hopefuls feel more hope. At the end of the season, we're seeing little hope from owners that their horses can compete.

[ribjig]

Deals before race may be more interesting than race:

http://www.horseracingnation.com/new...World_Cup_123#

Coming in third estimated to be break even.
Right now, if one had $1M invested in slot,
would one, in name of financial security,
offer it to Arrogate for first $1.1M of any
gross winnings??! An irresistible offer to
snag best chance of realizing profit, knowing
if Arrogate came in first, owners get $10.9M
gross without financial risk...?

Otherwise, one might end up with empty post
& down $1M...

[iamt]

I actually think they'll go cheaper than that, and owners of some of the spots will take a loss on the deal they make, before the horses get into the gate. Having two horses (provided Arrogate runs) that tower over the field makes it a tough sell.

[SG4]

This actually is quite a fascinating scenario the way it lays out this year - who holds more power, the Arrogate camp, or the owners of the available spots? Is there a bizarre scenario possible where Arrogate could get shut out? I wonder if deals will be made public as they start to happen as the race gets closer.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by SG4

This actually is quite a fascinating scenario the way it lays out this year - who holds more power, the Arrogate camp, or the owners of the available spots? Is there a bizarre scenario possible where Arrogate could get shut out? I wonder if deals will be made public as they start to happen as the race gets closer.

Are you crazy?

Arrogate, Bob Baffert, and Juddmonte Farms hold the cards over the entire field and "entries" right now.

And they don't even have a slot.

They can let the bidding war begin and take the best available deal from 11 of the 12.

IF I were one of the owning partners of Arrogate, I'd demand a free slot and 85% of the winnings. OR, $2 Million up front, and then 40/60 share on the winnings (which for the winner is $7 Million). Or somewhere in between. (But a freebie shot at nearly $6 million is appetizing to me.)

Arrogate and company hold the Ace of Spades, and the 11 slot owners have a 2 of clubs right now.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Are you crazy?

Arrogate, Bob Baffert, and Juddmonte Farms hold the cards over the entire field and "entries" right now.

And they don't even have a slot.

They can let the bidding war begin and take the best available deal from 11 of the 12.

IF I were one of the owning partners of Arrogate, I'd demand a free slot and 85% of the winnings. OR, $2 Million up front, and then 40/60 share on the winnings (which for the winner is $7 Million). Or somewhere in between. (But a freebie shot at nearly $6 million is appetizing to me.)

Arrogate and company hold the Ace of Spades, and the 11 slot owners have a 2 of clubs right now.

I find your angle to be more likely and like it

If I own Arrogate, I make them come to me and say

[SuperPickle]

The Arrogate thing is real interesting from two perspectives.

First, being his owners don't need the money. They literally can print it. So this certainly affects their thinking.

Second, being the race lacks prestige. As Andy says it's really just the Donn Handicap for $12 million dollars. While races like the Derby and Classic have huge breeding value implications this race does not. So with the Derby the purse is small peanuts compared to the stallion money. In this race it's all purse. Winning race has little stallion impact.

I'm curious how Juddmonte being a filthy rich breeding operation approach a race with a huge purse and small breeding implications. One hand they could try and get every dollar of the purse since it's not going to move the needle on the stud fee. On the other they could say the don't really need $12 million and just be focused on winning the race.