NY Riding Colony - Horrible

[menifee]

I've been going to Saratoga for nearly 35 years. I can confidently say this might be the worst riding colony in its history. I really question whether these guys look at the form. Bailey, (Prado in prime), Ramon, Cordero would destroy these guys .

How does Dreifong get away with a 23+ quarter. No one is aggressive in this colony. From a pace handicapper's perspective it is maddening day in, day out to watch these guys (especially on the turf). Other than Javier, these guys are just not good.

[Robert Fischer]

For better or for worse, when grading this jockey colony, the Ortiz brothers have a high impact value in general, or any given race.

Not really fair to make historical comparisons to Hall of Famers at this point.

[NY BRED]

Originally Posted by menifee

I've been going to Saratoga for nearly 35 years. I can confidently say this might be the worst riding colony in its history. I really question whether these guys look at the form. Bailey, (Prado in prime), Ramon, Cordero would destroy these guys .

How does Dreifong get away with a 23+ quarter. No one is aggressive in this colony. From a pace handicapper's perspective it is maddening day in, day out to watch these guys (especially on the turf). Other than Javier, these guys are just not good.

Inmho, these jockeys are riding toi instruction by their trainers,who are
the true culprits.

btw, the win by Drefong wasn't suprising,at least to me based upn her #'s
and the fact she was coming into this race from California with
the "AP" team.

My biggest problem was the Travers, loved American Freedom
and f'd up the tri reversing the Baffert Stars in the exacta,Tri
and yes the Superfectas

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by menifee

I've been going to Saratoga for nearly 35 years. I can confidently say this might be the worst riding colony in its history. I really question whether these guys look at the form. Bailey, (Prado in prime), Ramon, Cordero would destroy these guys .

How does Dreifong get away with a 23+ quarter. No one is aggressive in this colony. From a pace handicapper's perspective it is maddening day in, day out to watch these guys (especially on the turf). Other than Javier, these guys are just not good.

Well said. I keep praying for some new TALENTED blood to show up. I am dead serious when I say these guys are so over rated.

One can run out of ink documenting their countless mistakes in a race.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

Inmho, these jockeys are riding toi instruction by their trainers,who are
the true culprits.

btw, the win by Drefong wasn't suprising,at least to me based upn her #'s
and the fact she was coming into this race from California with
the "AP" team.

My biggest problem was the Travers, loved American Freedom
and f'd up the tri reversing the Baffert Stars in the exacta,Tri
and yes the Superfectas

Possible.........


Question: Was Angel riding to instructions? How about Dominguez?

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by menifee

I've been going to Saratoga for nearly 35 years. I can confidently say this might be the worst riding colony in its history. I really question whether these guys look at the form. Bailey, (Prado in prime), Ramon, Cordero would destroy these guys .

How does Dreifong get away with a 23+ quarter. No one is aggressive in this colony. From a pace handicapper's perspective it is maddening day in, day out to watch these guys (especially on the turf). Other than Javier, these guys are just not good.

I don't understand.....It wasn't as though Dreifong was some long shot rank outsider former $20k claimer who's trainer dropped his name in the entry box as a favor to the Racing Sec'y so the race would fill...
The horse ended up as the chalk in the win pool.

[camourous]

Originally Posted by thespaah

I don't understand.....It wasn't as though Dreifong was some long shot rank outsider former $20k claimer who's trainer dropped his name in the entry box as a favor to the Racing Sec'y so the race would fill...
The horse ended up as the chalk in the win pool.

the post isn't questioning Drefong, it's questioning the riders of the other horses who made no effort to win, just all rode the race for 2nd.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by camourous

the post isn't questioning Drefong, it's questioning the riders of the other horses who made no effort to win, just all rode the race for 2nd.

When the best or one of the best horses on paper is also one of the speedier horses in the field, it gets the other rider's attention.
look, I am not defending the riders out of hand.
I have seen some questionable rides this meeting, but if anyone thinks this colony is exclusive to bad rides or miscalculating the field, they are mistaken.
Just remember, nobody is perfect. And no one has the right to expect perfection....We do however have the right to expect a professional effort.
Referring to instructions. A long time ago. i worked on the harness side.
I had a paddock at Meadowlands. My boss, a trainer/driver was asked to drive another trainer's horse. We had ours in a later race. While doing my thing, the trainer told my boss not to "leave" with the horse. Apparently he was a dead closer.
As my boss took the horse out to the track for his first jog, I asked the trainer a few questions. One of his responses was ( jokingly) "I don't care if the first quarter is 35 seconds, we never leave with this horse.". Some pretty pertinent instructions.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by menifee

How does Dreifong get away with a 23+ quarter. No one is aggressive in this colony. From a pace handicapper's perspective it is maddening day in, day out to watch these guys (especially on the turf). Other than Javier, these guys are just not good.

I never complain about jockeys, but even I was shaking my head after that one. I had Economic Model. I probably wasn't going to beat the winner anyway, but I wasn't expecting to have to overcome a slow pace.

I think these guys are starting to understand that doing battle with the speed of the speeds is a futile and often very poor strategy. Now they need to understand that allowing him to walk on the lead doesn't work so well either.

There's a proper balance.

[cj]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Possible.........


Question: Was Angel riding to instructions? How about Dominguez?

The best horses are dominated by a couple trainers. If you don't listen to them, you're out. Wasn't like that in the past.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by cj

The best horses are dominated by a couple trainers. If you don't listen to them, you're out. Wasn't like that in the past.

Ramon rode in the same era of "mega stables". Ramon never rode 1st call or even 2nd or 3rd or 4th call for Todd Pletcher or Chad Brown.

Still DOMINATED.

Never seen a jock so dominant, undressing the supposed best every day, day in and day out, WHO NEVER RODE 1st call for a super barn.

THAT, is amazing.

Other side of that coin, these guys ride 1st call for monster stables and still can't dominate. Still make amazing mistakes all the time.

[NY BRED]

Originally Posted by menifee

I've been going to Saratoga for nearly 35 years. I can confidently say this might be the worst riding colony in its history. I really question whether these guys look at the form. Bailey, (Prado in prime), Ramon, Cordero would destroy these guys .

How does Dreifong get away with a 23+ quarter. No one is aggressive in this colony. From a pace handicapper's perspective it is maddening day in, day out to watch these guys (especially on the turf). Other than Javier, these guys are just not good.

Inmho, these jockeys are riding toi instruction by their trainers,who are
the true culprits.

btw, the win by Drefong wasn't suprising,at least to me based upn her #'s
and the fact she was coming into this race from California with
the "AP" team.

My biggest problem was the Travers, loved American Freedom
and f'd up the tri reversing the Baffert Stars in the exacta,Tri
and yes the Superfectas

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

... doing battle with the speed of the speeds is a futile and often very poor strategy. Now they need to understand that allowing him to walk on the lead doesn't work so well either.

There's a proper balance.

What is the proper balance between going with him being a poor strategy and not going with him being a poor strategy?

[cj]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Ramon rode in the same era of "mega stables". Ramon never rode 1st call or even 2nd or 3rd or 4th call for Todd Pletcher or Chad Brown.

Still DOMINATED.

Never seen a jock so dominant, undressing the supposed best every day, day in and day out, WHO NEVER RODE 1st call for a super barn.

THAT, is amazing.

Other side of that coin, these guys ride 1st call for monster stables and still can't dominate. Still make amazing mistakes all the time.

I agree with you. My point was in the past there was more competition among trainers to get the best riders. Now it has reversed.

Now leave me alone while I imbibe my coffee.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

What is the proper balance between going with him being a poor strategy and not going with him being a poor strategy?

Charge out of the gate, so that you make the speed horse believe you are going for a stride or 2.

OR, don't break from the gate with your palms up choking.

Get some position, MAKE the leader CREATE some seperation.

99% of paces are decided in the opening furlong.

These guys break with stupidity in their minds, no thinking. Just following instructions or whatever the predetermined game plan is.

Tell me, what if the 13 broke slow yesterday, do you think any jock actually would've said, Holy blank, lone speed got left, lets GO!

No, they would've rated down 5 across in a 24. Very little IF-THEN thinking going on out there.