Belmont Derby, Oaks?

[linrom1]

Thoroughbreds from Ireland, Great Britain, and France will be travelling to Belmont Park to face some of the top 3-year-old turf colts and fillies in the United States in the $1.25 million Belmont Derby (gr. IT) and the $1 million Belmont Oaks (gr. IT), respectively, July 9
Belmont Derby

Is this something new?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by linrom1

...

Is this something new?

Pretty sure it used to be the Jamaica until a few years ago.

[SuperPickle]

This is Martin Panza's baby. It's the old Jamaica and Garden City with a purse boast.

[StormAgain]

In 2014 Adelaide came over for O'brien/Coolmore to run 2nd in the Belmont Derby.

Past couple years have been good with Force the Pass and Lady Eli.

I'm glad to see more euros interested in this race.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Pretty sure it used to be the Jamaica until a few years ago.

You would be correct. The race was the Jamaica Handicap. Renamed and moved to the Spring Summer meet. Distance increased from nine to ten furlongs.

[thespaah]

It is good that these two races have attracted horses from overseas.
It is good competition and allows the fans to see excellent horses from other places.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thespaah

It is good that these two races have attracted horses from overseas.
It is good competition and allows the fans to see excellent horses from other places.

They are really 2nd level horses over there for the most part, not real G1 competitors. For example I was at Ascot a couple weeks ago and saw Humphrey Bogart run in a G2 where he was a not threatening middle of the pack. Never know what wonders good old vitamin L will do though.

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Humphrey Bogart

Great horse name. I hope they also have Lauren Bacall in their stable.

I think also the Euros bring over horses that might benefit from the firmer going we generally see here in the states, plus of course their bleeders.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

They are really 2nd level horses over there for the most part, not real G1 competitors. For example I was at Ascot a couple weeks ago and saw Humphrey Bogart run in a G2 where he was a not threatening middle of the pack. Never know what wonders good old vitamin L will do though.

Vitamin L.....LOL
Yeah, I did not take into consideration your idea.
However, would it not serve the purpose of seeing whether or not the European second stringers rate up against North American based horses?
Quite frankly. I want the fields in both events to fill or get as close as possible.
Makes for interesting betting options.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thespaah

Vitamin L.....LOL
Yeah, I did not take into consideration your idea.
However, would it not serve the purpose of seeing whether or not the European second stringers rate up against North American based horses?
Quite frankly. I want the fields in both events to fill or get as close as possible.
Makes for interesting betting options.

The "second stringers" have provided many very nice price winners over the years in the US and Canada.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by cj

The "second stringers" have provided many very nice price winners over the years in the US and Canada.

Yep. Was only pointing out that we really aren't seeing the "excellent horses" from other places (as was in the previous comment) as they generally don't leave. But some second stringers, whether it be the firm turf or lasix or the fact that they are just superior turf horses in general can step up.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Yep. Was only pointing out that we really aren't seeing the "excellent horses" from other places (as was in the previous comment) as they generally don't leave. But some second stringers, whether it be the firm turf or lasix or the fact that they are just superior turf horses in general can step up.

Yep...and Thanks.....
Hopefully we'll see full fields in both.

[cj]

Maybe we'll see more top flight horses soon with the state of the British Pound.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Yep. Was only pointing out that we really aren't seeing the "excellent horses" from other places (as was in the previous comment) as they generally don't leave. But some second stringers, whether it be the firm turf or lasix or the fact that they are just superior turf horses in general can step up.

You do realize that two years ago the Belmont Derby got European shippers that later won the Secretariat and Cox Plate in Australia as well as the BC Classic runner-up. Obviously getting 3YO Group 1 horses at this time of the year is extremely unlikely, but the race hasn't exactly embarrassed itself over the last two years.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by the little guy

You do realize that two years ago the Belmont Derby got European shippers that later won the Secretariat and Cox Plate in Australia as well as the BC Classic runner-up. Obviously getting 3YO Group 1 horses at this time of the year is extremely unlikely, but the race hasn't exactly embarrassed itself over the last two years.

I do. As I said, firmer ground and lasix can make a difference. Secretariat generally gets the same sort of runner as this race and that BC Classic as you well know was a mess. That one was better on dirt anyway. Cox Plate win was a big deal though so I'll grant you that one but he was definitely still on the improve late in the season as his loss in this race but later strong success shows. Believe I had him on top for the Belmont Derby that year. Oops.

Again this race does not and likely will not ever get the "excellent horses" as the comment I was reacting to. A horse like Harzand or US Army Ranger would rip this field nine times out of ten and this is a fairly weak year. Former top middle distance 3yos like Australia or Sea the Stars would beat this lot by a pole.