Another tragedy in Orlando

[tucker6]

To add to my last post, the alligator in the lake behind my house is maybe 5 feet long from snout to tip of tail. The alligator in question at Disney was described as about four feet long, so I'm not surprised with the fact that his injuries weren't more than a few bite marks. The boy would have been of a similar size to the gator less his tail. Small enough prey for the gator to go after him, but much too large to eat immediately. A gator that size will normally go after turtles, water birds, cats, and small dogs.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by tucker6

I'm normally on your side of the argument, but I live with an alligator not 25 feet from my back porch (live next to a small lake). They are docile and human fearing if you don't feed them. I suspect the tourists there feed them plenty, so they are much less fearful. Every lagoon, pond, and lake here has signage about alligators and feeding. The saying here is 'a fed alligator is a dead alligator'. They must be killed because they become aggressive toward humans.

All that said, it is negligent to the highest degree to not protect both humans and alligators from each other by BOTH cordoning off the water AND having signs. Some will say to remove the alligators, but honestly, they'd be back tomorrow.

Gators can't tell the difference between a wounded animal and a human splashing one foot into the water at sundown. At the time this happened(9pm) the gators are feeding not to mention it is breeding season and they protect their territory. The old adage is if you hear an alligator hiss you are too close. In this case the gator mistook the child for an animal. Disney is part of the blame for this as there are no alligator warnings anywhere in that area or any of the other hotels that make up the seven seas lagoon area including The Polynesian, Bay Lake Towers, The Contemporary, The Grand Floridian and the Wilderness Lodge.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Considering the parents were as responsible for what happened as Disney, shall they also sue themselves? I guess I'm tired of everything always being someone's fault and the answer is to give them money.

There won't be a lawsuit. Disney is already offering a settlement, I'm sure. They're a top notch company and family friendly and would figure the negative publicity of fighting a lawsuit would be worse than paying them.

Disney WILL give them money because THEY are at fault here. The father and son, as reported, were only wading in the water's edge. They were not swimming. When, no where in sight, is there even one single sign that states, "Beware:Alligators", you cannot ultimately be seen as family friendly. Instead, you are corporate bottom line friendly, knowing the presence of gators acknowledged and stated would not only frighten your guests, it would also cause them to book lodging elsewhere! .... Keeping the secret that maintenance culls the lagoons of gators, this too, is not family friendly. It, again, is corporate friendly.

[Rookies]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

The more I hear about this, the more I regret making the previous post. No place for a mild joke.

Looks like there might be some serious lack of warning on the part of Disney.

Somebody is going to get fired big time.

Given the litigious nature of American society, there will undoubtedly be a huge lawsuit.

Originally, I was thinking that if anybody should be named at fault- obviously it was the parents.

Now...

Disney has been named over time as one of the most well liked corporations to work for, by its employees. Part of that, is surely the attention to EVERY minute detail of the customer service mantra and rigorous employee training.

Segue: I remember years ago, taking my shirt off... for about 30 seconds... before an employee stepped out of nowhere to remind me courteously about their dress policy. Nobody had to tell that kid to tell me; rather it was expected that he would- every time!

Ergo, I now don't believe for a nano second that the signage near the gators was not discussed and agreed upon at the highest corporate level. So, why would they sub the words "deep waters" for "alligator"?

Think about it. The #1 target audience for Disney is kids... little kids, accompanied, by their families. Advertising that alligators are all over the properties, would not be a positive communications step, in encouraging people to come. So, because they had never had an incident , they gapped it.

Of course, they had previous reported incidents, as outlined by my post above. Their spokesperson yesterday, mentioned that they were proactive in going after the gators under certain circumstances, but ducked or denied knowledge of any specific, recent complaints- even the one at this EXACT site!

That is big trouble for them.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

The more I hear about this, the more I regret making the previous post. No place for a mild joke.

Looks like there might be some serious lack of warning on the part of Disney.

Somebody is going to get fired big time.

To their credit,they shut down several other locations they own for security investigations.

All of Florida should be prepared to burn some midnight oil and do some serious risk-analysis.

[zico20]

Originally Posted by tucker6

To add to my last post, the alligator in the lake behind my house is maybe 5 feet long from snout to tip of tail. The alligator in question at Disney was described as about four feet long, so I'm not surprised with the fact that his injuries weren't more than a few bite marks. The boy would have been of a similar size to the gator less his tail. Small enough prey for the gator to go after him, but much too large to eat immediately. A gator that size will normally go after turtles, water birds, cats, and small dogs.

There would be no alligator in the lake behind my house. That gator would be on my dinner plate. I have dogs and they take precedence.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Considering the parents were as responsible for what happened as Disney, shall they also sue themselves?

Bullshit. Not in this instance. I'm as critical of today's parents as anyone, but I don't believe for one second these parents are in any way responsible for what happened to their child.

They are on a Disney resort. There are NO signs about alligators. The child, by all accounts, wasn't swimming in the water...I'm not even sure if he was IN the water at all. If he was, he certainly wasn't in past his knees, from what I've heard, but again, I don't even think he was in the water.

Sitting at a Disney resort, at a MAN-MADE lagoon, I would NOT expect alligators, even in Florida. I would EXPECT that Disney has taken proper precautions (such as underwater barriers where the lagoon might meet any possible entrance to another body of water that might make it easy for gators to enter the lagoon).

The parents aren't responsible. This wasn't a field trip to the Everglades. This was a DISNEY RESORT on Disney property.

Disney is going to pay and pay dearly for this mistake. It won't hurt them financially, as they make more money than God. But it will be enough where serious changes will take place at resorts such as this.

[Tom]

And the place was made to look like a beech, from what I have heard.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Grits

Disney WILL give them money because THEY are at fault here. The father and son, as reported, were only wading in the water's edge. They were not swimming. When, no where in sight, is there even one single sign that states, "Beware:Alligators", you cannot ultimately be seen as family friendly. Instead, you are corporate bottom line friendly, knowing the presence of gators acknowledged and stated would not only frighten your guests, it would also cause them to book lodging elsewhere! .... Keeping the secret that maintenance culls the lagoons of gators, this too, is not family friendly. It, again, is corporate friendly.

I don't agree with you being so hard on Disney. Why would people book elsewhere if they also have the same gator problem? It doesn't make the risk any less if you know there are gators at both places.

So one gator death in how many years? 45 or so? Their efforts have worked to date at having zero people killed. Those lakes, by the way, are actually owned by the state (or county).

In any event, I think it's fine to put up signs everywhere there is a body of fresh water to tell anyone who is ignorant of the gators in Florida. But I do find it interesting that everyone knows that ignorance is not an acceptable defense for breaking a law, but it's an acceptable defense any time someone gets harmed by anything (and they can find a person or company on the other end rich enough to sue).

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Bullshit. Not in this instance. I'm as critical of today's parents as anyone, but I don't believe for one second these parents are in any way responsible for what happened to their child.

They are on a Disney resort. There are NO signs about alligators. The child, by all accounts, wasn't swimming in the water...I'm not even sure if he was IN the water at all. If he was, he certainly wasn't in past his knees, from what I've heard, but again, I don't even think he was in the water.

Sitting at a Disney resort, at a MAN-MADE lagoon, I would NOT expect alligators, even in Florida. I would EXPECT that Disney has taken proper precautions (such as underwater barriers where the lagoon might meet any possible entrance to another body of water that might make it easy for gators to enter the lagoon).

The parents aren't responsible. This wasn't a field trip to the Everglades. This was a DISNEY RESORT on Disney property.

Disney is going to pay and pay dearly for this mistake. It won't hurt them financially, as they make more money than God. But it will be enough where serious changes will take place at resorts such as this.

I've read/heard of alligators at golf course ponds and backyard pools, and I bet you have too. I bet these parents have too. Clearly they haven't figured out in Florida how to keep alligators confined so maybe it's not as easy as you think.

Of course paying dearly for this mistake brings back the boy and makes things ok. I'm sorry that I can't sue God for the death of a person close to me who was taken just a few years older than this boy.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Grits

There will be a tremendous lawsuit, too. But no amount of money will ease the horrible loss of their baby boy. Prayers for this family. <3

I despise frivolous lawsuits and sue-happy people, but I hope Disney is sued for ten of millions in this case. Moreover, someone should be tried for culpable negligence. Walt Disney World is a theme primarily geared toward children/teens. It attracts visitors from all over the country and the world. I know alligators are in bodies of fresh water in Florida, and that's why you don't set up a sandy beach next to a body of water at Disney World with no warning signs. You cannot expect your guests or their parents to know alligators lurk in the waters. It is not a reasonable expectation. The same theory extends to a culpable negligence charge.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by zico20

There would be no alligator in the lake behind my house. That gator would be on my dinner plate. I have dogs and they take precedence.

Thanks for explaining why St Louis isn't worth visiting.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Bullshit. Not in this instance. I'm as critical of today's parents as anyone, but I don't believe for one second these parents are in any way responsible for what happened to their child.

They are on a Disney resort. There are NO signs about alligators. The child, by all accounts, wasn't swimming in the water...I'm not even sure if he was IN the water at all. If he was, he certainly wasn't in past his knees, from what I've heard, but again, I don't even think he was in the water.

Sitting at a Disney resort, at a MAN-MADE lagoon, I would NOT expect alligators, even in Florida. I would EXPECT that Disney has taken proper precautions (such as underwater barriers where the lagoon might meet any possible entrance to another body of water that might make it easy for gators to enter the lagoon).

The parents aren't responsible. This wasn't a field trip to the Everglades. This was a DISNEY RESORT on Disney property.

Disney is going to pay and pay dearly for this mistake. It won't hurt them financially, as they make more money than God. But it will be enough where serious changes will take place at resorts such as this.

Anyone who disagrees with this post is just looking to argue or out of their minds.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I don't agree with you being so hard on Disney. Why would people book elsewhere if they also have the same gator problem? It doesn't make the risk any less if you know there are gators at both places.

So one gator death in how many years? 45 or so? Their efforts have worked to date at having zero people killed. Those lakes, by the way, are actually owned by the state (or county).

In any event, I think it's fine to put up signs everywhere there is a body of fresh water to tell anyone who is ignorant of the gators in Florida. But I do find it interesting that everyone knows that ignorance is not an acceptable defense for breaking a law, but it's an acceptable defense any time someone gets harmed by anything (and they can find a person or company on the other end rich enough to sue).

Some days, you'd argue with a sign post, and stand over the hole.. arguing into it, after you dug it up, Fager. Jeez.. You don't have a prayer here. Too, no one has said suing Disney is going to make everything all ok for this family.

Use your head, correctly, and stop arguing simply for the sake of being disagreeable. First off, it has been reported that other properties, clearly, have signs POSTED regarding the gators. Disney did not. However, keep in mind, not every Florida hotel property has lagoons on them. So yes, there are other options for families.

About suing? I've been on the bad end of medical malpractice twice. One resulted in 8 surgeries in 21 days. The other resulted in an infection for 10 months that brought the need for a thoracic surgeon opening the chest removing two ribs, a portion of the chest wall with an 8" incision that had to heal from the inside out. Gross medical error by two different surgeons, almost 20 years apart. I've never sued a soul in my life. I don't intend to start. Wealth gained via lawsuits without lasting disability makes me sick.

....On another note, a few weeks ago, I believe it was TVG who posted a video of one of the biggest gators I've ever seen. He was sauntering around the middle of the track holding up racing on a rainy night. Believe it was Delta Downs. Wish I could find the video. HUGE, he was.

[Racetrack Playa]

Originally Posted by Grits

....On another note, a few weeks ago, I believe it was TVG who posted a video of one of the biggest gators I've ever seen. He was sauntering around the middle of the track holding up racing on a rainy night. Believe it was Delta Downs. Wish I could find the video. HUGE, he was.

that was May 19th,race 3 check TVGs facebook(Im Guessing).