Here is what the president of the PTHA thinks of bettors

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

How about we pick 1 day, 1 race at Parx and go from there?

I haven't bet Parx in over six months...and I made my last Penn National wager last night.

[cj]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

How about we pick 1 day, 1 race at Parx and go from there?

Nobody bets the place anyway. How would they know they were being boycotted?

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by cj

Nobody bets the place anyway. How would they know they were being boycotted?

I think it's only fair we start with the track that this BLANKETY BLANK represents.

I would send a notification to the PTHA, the Philadelphia Inquirer, DRF, Paulick Report, etc etc etc etc and I would pick a non Mon or Tues (as sick degenerates will bet PRX no matter what on those days).

If their handle on the 1 race goes from $100K to $50K. A point is made, no?

[cj]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I think it's only fair we start with the track that this BLANKETY BLANK represents.

I would send a notification to the PTHA, the Philadelphia Inquirer, DRF, Paulick Report, etc etc etc etc and I would pick a non Mon or Tues (as sick degenerates will bet PRX no matter what on those days).

If their handle on the 1 race goes from $100K to $50K. A point is made, no?

I agree, I was just being a smartass

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by cj

I agree, I was just being a smartass

No one (especially my goof on the roof) ever accused me of being sharp so I missed that

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I haven't bet Parx in over six months...and I made my last Penn National wager last night.

OK, the curiosity will kill this cat

Why was it your last at Pig Pen?

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I think it's only fair we start with the track that this BLANKETY BLANK represents.

I would send a notification to the PTHA, the Philadelphia Inquirer, DRF, Paulick Report, etc etc etc etc and I would pick a non Mon or Tues (as sick degenerates will bet PRX no matter what on those days).

If their handle on the 1 race goes from $100K to $50K. A point is made, no?

From an ex horseman, with no skin in the game, no. No point is made. Here is why.

Everyone involved thinks customers cannot stay away . For a day? OK. For two days ? OK. For a week ? No way !

And they are betting on that.

Having actually advocated for customers in my early years, believe it or not, this was the overwhelming sentiment with management, horsemen, hell, anyone except customers. I stood virtually alone. A position I had to either abandon or be run out of business just as I was getting started.

And boycotting A TRACK? . That's a joke. Boycott ALL tracks. That won't take long, as long as customers are willing to make it a week although you tell them a month.

They are fully vested on customers NEVER being able to not blink before they do.

You have ALL the power. Yet, no leader and worse, no organization that enough customers are willing to rally behind. That is not on HANA.
THAT, is on each individual customer.

The day you do, is day one of fixing all this. But until then, it's a staring contest and your opponent is 100% confident the customers will lose.

After all these years of high takeout in exotics, why shouldn't they be?

Hope that helps.

[RXB]

First, I disagree with the suggestion earlier in this thread that the PTHA guys comments from 2011 were "right." They were not right. Bettors might not change their wagering activities due to takeout rates on an individual race or even over the medium term, but they certainly have and will continue to do so over the long term. They don't have as much money to bet, it's that simple. Not only are high takeouts a problem but the tracks offer too many high-risk wagers with low hit percentages, which is tapping out those bettors and reducing churn.

Look at how handle has plummetted (and remember to factor inflation, too). Just like the market for horse ownership has plummetted as starts per horse has fallen off of a cliff. Ill-conceived strategies, overpriced & underdelivering products will inevitably yield crappy bottom lines.

I cannot confirm that the event I am about to describe actually took place as claimed but I will pass along what I read online.

It was claimed that more recently the horsemen at Parx had a bit of an enlightening thought. This doesn't happen very often with horsemen so the mere possibility was enough to get my attention.

They realized that if they wanted not to have racing dates and/or their percentages of slots revenues reduced any further by the government, it might be a good idea to stop the bleeding in terms of wagering on races in their state. (Reported as down 70% since 2001.) It was claimed that the horsemen went to Parx management and suggested lowering the takeouts, but Parx declined.

Again, I cannot confirm that this was a true story, it was just something that I read online. But it wouldn't totally surprise me if some horsemen have looked at what has happened in Ontario and a couple of other jurisdictions, and what is proposed in Florida, and realized that there is a trend-- that parading their horses around tracks with empty grandstands and small wagering handles but big slot-fuelled purses is a practice that is on its way down and maybe eventually right out.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I've always advocated abstaining from betting a single track, for a period of a week...while betting normally at the other tracks. That way, the horseplayer still gets to make his point...while still indulging his "addiction". Is it that much of a "sacrifice" to stop betting a single track...just to prove the point that we are a force to be reckoned with? What do you think Mr. Debunda would say if the handle at Parx declined by 90% for a week...while business at the rest of the tracks continued normally?

Alas...we horseplayers can't even do that.

The point is to be noticed and to be taken seriously. It's not just Parx after all. I'd give it up for as many tracks and for as long as that would take.

[Stillriledup]

we are robbing you but as long as you don't realize it everything is good!

[The Judge]

I haven't noticed any new tracks opening, I wonder why. There are less races being run on fewer days and fewer bettors are showing up at the track, yet the bettor doesn't know or care about the takeout. Unbelievable of course this has been the attitude all along. We are seen as no more then degenerate gamblers picking numbers and color of horses to place our bets.

Diners paying for the menu. Tracks are closing this must mean something.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

we are robbing you but as long as you don't realize it everything is good!

They , and let's not call this horsemen without citing management and therefore ownership as well, unless of course it makes you feel better, have known since day one that realize it or not, customers won't stand together and do a damn thing about it except bitch. Between races that is.

I see nothing funny about that.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

customers won't stand together and do a damn thing about it except bitch.

Actually, customers (bettors and horse owners) have been doing something for about 30 years-- pulling the plug, steadily and surely. The inflation-adjusted handle stats, foal stats, number of starts and races, etc., confirm their exodus very clearly.

[cj]

Originally Posted by RXB

Actually, customers (bettors and horse owners) have been doing something for about 30 years-- pulling the plug, steadily and surely. The inflation-adjusted handle stats, foal stats, number of starts and races, etc., confirm their exodus very clearly.

This is spot on. The only reason customers are still treated so poorly most places is because of subsidies from gaming, slots, casinos, lotteries...whatever. Once those go away, and they will, racing will either adapt or perish.

[betovernetcapper]

People tend to gravitate to games with lower take outs. You never see lines at say the wheel of fortune in casinos, because people sort of instructively realize they are bad bets. Large bettors tend to go to the craps table or blackjack or baccarat, games with lower take outs.
Lottery tickets are a good example of a poor bet. You will see them sold on every block in the poorer neighborhoods. You have to really search for them in areas where people are wealthy or well read.
This isn't rocket science. If tracks offered lower take outs & rebates, they would attract more customers. As it is if you want to win you need to do a great deal of work or bet the lucky numbers from a fortune cookie on a cold pic 6 ticket that hits. This is not a situation that is likely to attract new customers. It's very much like a restaurant that has roaches & mice crawling around. It's like a hooker with a visible cold sore. Neither is attractive to new clients.
IMO the industry tends to view it's clients with disdain and yet ironically are surprised when their operations fail.

A one day boycott is unlikely to have any impact. A one month boycott of the entire industry including the DRF & HDW , say the month of May might get their attention. Having a hundred or more people show up at state hearings that involve agriculture & betting might have an impact.
Passing out leaflets in front of OTBs & maybe even offering people free rides to casinos instead of entering might help. I think these are all good ideas but will come to nothing. We would need the participation of thousands and are likely to have about twenty.

At this point, I don't see any clear road to meaningful change.