Is it possible that there are no real speed figs?

[cj]

Originally Posted by Cratos

I don't want to turn this into an argument, but an understanding of basic physics is essential in the understanding of "speed" in horseracing.

I couldn't care less about how many books could have been sold by Beyer, but I do believe that if a basic Newtonian explanation of speed had been given in his book as opposed to anecdotal rhetoric, sales of the book would have probably been better.

This is a fundamental problem in horseracing; explaining the "what" and not the "why."

Yes, I'm sure people would have flocked to book stores to read that type explanation of speed figures.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by cj

Cratos can never resist getting into speed figure threads and doing the old "you're way is wrong" post. He never really tells you what he does, though.

Yes I do; I use the principles of science and math to the extent that they are applicable and all of those principles are public knowledge.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Cratos

Yes I do; I use the principles of science and math to the extent that they are applicable and all of those principles are public knowledge.

[Tom]

Here it is, CJ......hot off the presses.
All our questions answered!

[cj]

Cratos every time a speed figure thread he doesn't like pops up.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Are BEYER figures adjusted to track variance before published in DRF?

For that matter, what exactly does Andy include in his figure?

This thread was going along quite nicely until the sound of screeching brakes appeared right about here...just sayin' what everyone else is thinking...

[cj]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

This thread was going along quite nicely until the sound of screeching brakes appeared right about here...just sayin' what everyone else is thinking...

Yes, pretty much what always happens in threads about speed figures.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by cj

Yes, I'm sure people would have flocked to book stores to read that type explanation of speed figures.

As usual you missed the thesis of my post.

It is understanding through the application of science and math.

What I find disingenuous about your retort is that you started another thread about the awareness and making known to the new owner/trainer the various drugs given to a claimed horse.

From what I read, the thread and the supporting info within the thread puts me in the affirmative.

However when the same is said about "speedfigures" you have a different response.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Cratos

As usual you missed the thesis of my post.

It is understanding through the application of science and math.

What I find disingenuous about your retort is that you started another thread about the awareness and making known to the new owner/trainer the various drugs given to a claimed horse.

From what I read, the thread and the supporting info within the thread puts me in the affirmative.

However when the same is said about "speedfigures" you have a different response.

I have no idea how you tied these two things together or what you are trying to say. I'm probably just a poor reader. I'll move on.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

What he wrote about is a long, long way from what I do now.

What everyone else is doing is long way from what I do now, which is to ignore figures altogether. But if he wants to get the gist of what projection variants are about, those Beyer books are a good start.

[ReplayRandall]

The OP's question, "Is it possible that there are no real speed figs? is yes, because most are either obsolete or overexposed to the point of NO edge, in the context of profitability. IMO, all that's left for finding a profitable edge are PACE figures, select workout reports, tote-board analysis and replays...

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

What everyone else is doing is long way from what I do now, which is to ignore figures altogether. But if he wants to get the gist of what projection variants are about, those Beyer books are a good start.

For a guy that ignores them you sure like jumping into every speed figure thread.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

The OP's question, "Is it possible that there are no real speed figs? is yes, because most are either obsolete or overexposed to the point of NO edge, in the context of profitability. IMO, all that's left for finding a profitable edge are PACE figures, select workout reports, tote-board analysis and replays...

He didn't ask if speed figures were relevant, profitable, or any such thing--he asked if--since speed ratings are based on pars--and pars are based on class-levels..then are speed ratings just a function of CLASS?

He could have said ....DO PACE FIGURES REALLY EXIST? Pace figs are speed figures of sections of the race, in whole. So pace is a function of speed-- speed is a function of class--so, IS HANDICAPPING ULTIMATELY BASED ON CLASS?
That question is about as useful and relevant as anything in this thread.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by NorCalGreg

He didn't ask if speed figures were relevant, profitable, or any such thing--he asked if--since speed ratings are based on pars--and pars are based on class-levels..then are speed ratings just a function of CLASS?

He could have said ....DO PACE FIGURES REALLY EXIST? Pace figs are speed figures of sections of the race, in whole. So pace is a function of speed-- speed is a function of class--so, IS HANDICAPPING ULTIMATELY BASED ON CLASS?
That question is about as useful and relevant as anything in this thread.

Does a horse know what "class" he's in?....

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Does a horse know what "class" he's in?....

No...but the TRAINER does. And if the trainer thinks that his horse is outclassed, then the horse ain't winning the race...no matter what the HORSE thinks.

"Class" matters...even if it exists only in the trainer's mind.