Jocks not riding according to their chances

[Stillriledup]

The people who back Andy and support his right to critique industry participants is something I will always do. People who take their betting seriously and are supporting this game through the pari mutuels are lucky to have a voice who isn't afraid to tell the truth as he believes it to be.

Sensitive thoroughbreds that get throttled down and have their heads ripped off can 'quit' and lose by many more lengths than they would have otherwise. Andy's critique was for something this rider did before the rider (or anyone) knew He was going to lose by 20, getting beat a long way doesn't absolve the ride because if you think it absolves the ride you're essentially saying that you're allowed to ride poorly but only will feel criticism if the horse races well.

I have much more respect for industry insiders and commentators who aren't afraid to speak the truth the way they see it.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by arw629

Why isn't he allowed to be critical of the jockey?

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

And this in a nutshell is what's wrong with the industry, jocks who won't be missed if they retire and contributing nothing to the pari mutuel pools would 'win' over someone who is betting, handicapping and educating not to mention that Andys comments create others to possibly play races they might otherwise have skipped, so he's creating betting handle in more ways than one and yet he's the guy who would be 'replaced' (according to you) for telling the truth just because a very replacable participant got his feelings hurt.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

Someone, somewhere might believe this, but by now most have you figured out.

As someone who has been ostracized from the industry maybe you should have taken your own advice? What do you think?

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Someone, somewhere might believe this, but by now most have you figured out.

As someone who has been ostracized from the industry maybe you should have taken your own advice? What do you think?

I think you're #5

[bks]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

He has every right to be critical of the jockey.

There have been times I felt he has implied that jockeys have given less than maximum effort.

He came on this forum and stated that was not true and I accepted him on his word.

My post today had nothing to do with his being critical.

I was speaking from experience that jockeys, especially high profile ones, have a pipeline to management that few enjoy.

I've seen instances where staff members who were critical of jockey's were told to think twice about continuing.

Not saying that will happen here. Julien is a big boy.

But I can assure you if it comes down to a pissing match between TLG and JL.

I'd advise the purchase of many place tickets on TLG.

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by bks

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.

Well said, bks

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I think you're #5

Good answer

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by bks

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.

Spot on.

[Mandrake]

Leparoux is the most overrated bigger name jockey in my book. He rides most races like he is in Deauxville or Chantilly. He's this years Edgar Prado, but with two killers to ride in the big ones. It's about time someone called him out for his lack of aggressiveness, he's been getting away with it for too long. Andy is ok in my book, he has the forum, good for him.

[Tall One]

Biancone put him on the map, if that tells you anything. He's an option to support on the lawn, but I wouldn't even glance his way on the dirt.

[Mandrake]

Turfway more so in my opinion, as it did for Bejarano.

[Tall One]

Originally Posted by Mandrake

Turfway more so in my opinion, as it did for Bejarano.

Good point. I remember it being reported that JL expressed an interest in leaving Covington for a warmer winter climate, but Biancone encouraged him to stay.

Bejarano, you knew he was a short timer before he was bolting for greener pastures.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by bks

The biggest issue with the insulting argument you're advancing here is that Andy, and by extension all of the bettors whose interests he is trying to represent, should simply understand and accept their subordinate place in the thoroughbred ecosystem. That's a ruinously false argument.

It's a long, slow process but in case you missed it, management is in the process of being voted off the island. The sport is a decaying corpse. Andy's efforts are praiseworthy in that they clearly aim at trying to revitalizing it. He seems to understand that the only means for doing so is to raise the game's integrity in the eyes of bettors.

There's a very simply reply to be made to Caton and Dottie and the other owner-affiliated media members: we know who's side your on. We know who you take to be your constituency. You're on the wrong team, though. This isn't some aristocratic fox hunt for which Leparoux had a mount.

If Leparoux was on an unstable or injured horse, there's a very, very simple means of making that clear: FILE A PUBLIC REPORT GIVING YOUR REASONS. Explain your actions, on the record, or else expect others will take you to task for them when they look prima facie suspicious. Your fidelity as a jockey (and trainer, for that matter) MUST be to the players, not the owners and not track management. It's the only way to take the sport back. I say this as a former owner.

Of course I understand the issues associated with that stance. Of course I recognize trainers and jockeys are mostly gutless employees (like the rest of us employees, and former employees, like you, Vic). And Serling's criticism, in a perfect world, would be better directed at management for tolerating this sort of performance by jockeys instead of the jocks themselves. But Leparoux treats Serling like he is making a ridiculous charge, which is itself absurd. And Leparoux is only looking out for his future business by staying silent. Worst of all, management is owner-aligned, and not player aligned, for the most part.

It's a long process, this shift. I completely applaud Andy for his work on this front. The game doesn't need owners in charge. It needs players in charge. That is the direction we're heading.

Fantastic post, sharper than sharp. I really enjoyed reading that.

[Stillriledup]

Journalists, reporters and commentators who have decided that THEY are 'insiders' and dont really see themselves as 'media' between bettors and the inside. Insiders don't poke or call out other insiders, they want to collect a paycheck and play nice.

If Bredar is going to call out Serling, she should do it only if she thinks Andy was wrong and it wasnt a bad ride and not call him out because of the truth hurting.