Newest Cooperstown Inductees

[NJ Stinks]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

I am overall very dissatisfied with the HOF voting process. There really does not seem to be any transparency with the vote or any type of set criteria for what gets somebody in. I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that somebody should automatically get in for 500 HRs, 3000 hits, 300 wins etc., but those are some awfully good achievements. Of course, great fielders are important as well and do not put up those great numbers. The HOF discriminates against those types of players.

In my opinion, guys like Edgar Martinez, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Trevor Hoffman are HOFers. I also think that Clemens and Bonds should get in. Pete too. At some point, it has to be determined how the players in the steroids era will be dealt with. Nothing has been proven yet some players are being blackballed.

Kingfin, it's great to read about your umpiring days. Thanks for taking the time to tell us.

But - yep, the proverbial but - I can't understand your leniency with drug users. You said Piazza was a hard-working guy. Great. Too bad he couldn't even give a straight answer on the day he made the HOF.

IMO, throwing guys out who cheat with drugs is the only way the game stays pure. (I'm baffled that you still think baseball has to figure out how to deal with the steroid era. )

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

I am overall very dissatisfied with the HOF voting process. There really does not seem to be any transparency with the vote or any type of set criteria for what gets somebody in. I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that somebody should automatically get in for 500 HRs, 3000 hits, 300 wins etc., but those are some awfully good achievements. Of course, great fielders are important as well and do not put up those great numbers. The HOF discriminates against those types of players.

In my opinion, guys like Edgar Martinez, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Trevor Hoffman are HOFers. I also think that Clemens and Bonds should get in. Pete too. At some point, it has to be determined how the players in the steroids era will be dealt with. Nothing has been proven yet some players are being blackballed.

As Colin Cowherd has said the HOF vote is 'silly old men holding grudges'

Baseball is a statistics game, the elite 5 pct statswise get in, I don't know if MLB has an official record book or not, but when I Went to mlb.com and put in Barry Bonds stats, up came 762 HR. It didn't have an asterisk next to it,his HR total was sitting there unblemished, which got me thinking that there must be some other reason he's not in the HOF.

Mlb recognizes his achievements on their official website, there's nothing that says his stats have been 'disqualified' or anything else.

Seems odd that he didn't get voted in.

[ManU918]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

As Colin Cowherd has said the HOF vote is 'silly old men holding grudges'

Baseball is a statistics game, the elite 5 pct statswise get in, I don't know if MLB has an official record book or not, but when I Went to mlb.com and put in Barry Bonds stats, up came 762 HR. It didn't have an asterisk next to it,his HR total was sitting there unblemished, which got me thinking that there must be some other reason he's not in the HOF.

Mlb recognizes his achievements on their official website, there's nothing that says his stats have been 'disqualified' or anything else.

Seems odd that he didn't get voted in.

I couldn't agree more with Cowherd. Honestly outside of the players do fans give a shit about the Hall of Fame? If so, then why? When some of the best players of all-time like Rose, Bonds and Clemens are on the outside looking in, then I can't take an organization like that seriously. Mike Schmidt talks about how amphetamines were everywhere in baseball clubhouses during the 80's in his book. Why do those players get a pass? PED's are PED's. If every Hall of Fame closed tomorrow I wouldn't give two ****s.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by ManU918

I couldn't agree more with Cowherd. Honestly outside of the players do fans give a shit about the Hall of Fame? If so, then why? When some of the best players of all-time like Rose, Bonds and Clemens are on the outside looking in, then I can't take an organization like that seriously. Mike Schmidt talks about how amphetamines were everywhere in baseball clubhouses during the 80's in his book. Why do those players get a pass? PED's are PED's. If every Hall of Fame closed tomorrow I wouldn't give two ****s.

Couldn't agree more.

If the stats say you're good enough, you get in, if you are a committee that's hiring Men to 'pass judgment' than you're only as good as your weakest link.

We don't need silly old men 'disqualifying' baseball statistics when the employers of the athletes didnt see fit to disqualify them.

If the stats are in good standing on MLBs website, I'm going to assume they're as legit as everyone else's.

[ebcorde]

Originally Posted by ManU918

I couldn't agree more with Cowherd. Honestly outside of the players do fans give a shit about the Hall of Fame? If so, then why? When some of the best players of all-time like Rose, Bonds and Clemens are on the outside looking in, then I can't take an organization like that seriously. Mike Schmidt talks about how amphetamines were everywhere in baseball clubhouses during the 80's in his book. Why do those players get a pass? PED's are PED's. If every Hall of Fame closed tomorrow I wouldn't give two ****s.

I'm not into the Hall of Fame anymore. The Standard to get in is too low. I get it, you need a lot of people in the HOF to sell tickets

I recall the media labeling the Pete Rose era Philies team "The Pillies"
I'd be afraid to take on a fastball on speed. Must be a very small dose.

[ebcorde]

Originally Posted by MutuelClerk

The entire process needs to be reviewed. I'm a Tiger fan, it angers me that Trammell gets sucked along for 15 years and doesn't make it. If he only did backflips he would have been a lock. Ron Santo was sucked along the same way, dies and gets voted in. One vote, either you make it or you don't. Totally agree about the three writers leaving Griffey off their ballots. Take away their ballots. Barry Bonds at age 42 in his last season had an OPS of 1.042 We were arguing at work the other day about the two biggest "criminals" held out of the Hall and who was a better player. Bonds or Rose? It amazed me the majority took Rose. In my mind it isn't even close and I loved Rose as a player.

whoa! backflips? you talking about the wiz? The wiz is in, a much better SS than Trammell. I remember Alan Trammel guessing a .290 hitter, Whitaker at 2nd.
Those type guys are a dime a dozen. Please, Santo was not that good. Hit cleanup for the cubs after Banks slowed down. And they fell apart every fall.


My childhood SS were Harreleson , Bowa, Belanger, Davey Concepcion, they're not in and maybe they're right

[Inner Dirt]

Thanks for the story Kingfin66. I lived in Palm Desert a dozen miles from Palm Springs for about 5 years, the summer heat was brutal, but at least it was a dry heat. Used to go to a lot of the Angel spring training games there. Did any of the minor league umps work the major league spring training games in their area?

[MutuelClerk]

Originally Posted by ebcorde

whoa! backflips? you talking about the wiz? The wiz is in, a much better SS than Trammell. I remember Alan Trammel guessing a .290 hitter, Whitaker at 2nd.
Those type guys are a dime a dozen. Please, Santo was not that good. Hit cleanup for the cubs after Banks slowed down. And they fell apart every fall.


My childhood SS were Harreleson , Bowa, Belanger, Davey Concepcion, they're not in and maybe they're right

No. Olga Korbut. Who could have had a lifetime .666 OPS too. If Ozzie played his entire career in San Diego he wouldn't be in the HOF. Where you play means almost as much as what your career stats are. Ozzie was a great fielder. No question. But playing in St. Louis helped him a lot. Like others here I really don't care about the HOF anymore. It's keeping out the greats and letting in the very good. If you're putting in Ozzie, that's fine. But he was one dimensional. I think there were better all around SS's. Trams being one of them. I'm admittedly partial to Trammell. The fact that Whitaker was only the ballot only one time was laughable. The two of them will probably be inducted later by the veterans committee as a double play combo. Maybe that's fitting. Not worth arguing over. You love Ozzie, that's fine he made some truly amazing plays and won some titles. The Santo reference wasn't about on the field it was inducting him after he died. He got better all of a sudden? The entire process bothers me.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

I am overall very dissatisfied with the HOF voting process. There really does not seem to be any transparency with the vote or any type of set criteria for what gets somebody in. I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that somebody should automatically get in for 500 HRs, 3000 hits, 300 wins etc., but those are some awfully good achievements. Of course, great fielders are important as well and do not put up those great numbers. The HOF discriminates against those types of players.

In my opinion, guys like Edgar Martinez, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Trevor Hoffman are HOFers. I also think that Clemens and Bonds should get in. Pete too. At some point, it has to be determined how the players in the steroids era will be dealt with. Nothing has been proven yet some players are being blackballed.

Definitely agree there. My baseball fandom has waned over the years,
the players I am really familiar with played long ago. I can remember Yankee 3rd baseman Greg Nettles seemed to rob an opposing team of at least one down the line double a game. He hardly got any HOF votes. He may have only hit around .250 but to me every hit he stole from the other team was as good as him getting one himself. To me he was more of an asset than a .300 guy with power who was an average fielder. Some guys are a lot better than the numbers show.

[kingfin66]

Nettles is a really good example of that type of player, although he had some great power. By today's standard of 3B, he would be a HOFer! My fandom has decreased quite a bit over the years as well. I am much more of a football and MMA fan these days. Baseball really blew it for me when they went on strike. The steroid era - despite my earlier post being what I would call neutral about some players being in the HOF - also diminished by enthusiasm. Unfortunately, it exists in every sport to some degree

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks

Kingfin, it's great to read about your umpiring days. Thanks for taking the time to tell us.

But - yep, the proverbial but - I can't understand your leniency with drug users. You said Piazza was a hard-working guy. Great. Too bad he couldn't even give a straight answer on the day he made the HOF.

IMO, throwing guys out who cheat with drugs is the only way the game stays pure. (I'm baffled that you still think baseball has to figure out how to deal with the steroid era. )

I don't know if I would say that I am "lenient" with drug users. My bigger point is probably more that we don't really know who the users are or were. Others have taken up my argument as well. There have always been users of PEDs of some type. Hell, when McGwire was hitting 70 HRs, he was interviewed iwth the andro in a container sitting in open view in his locker. The stuff was not banned. I cannot prove it, but I suspect a well-known catcher who played in the 70s and 80s for two American League teams to be perhaps our first steroid abuser.

I really do think that baseball needs to figure out what to do with these guys. Barry Bonds was clearly on a HOF track in his career before his body changed. He had power, but his hits started traveling further. I watched Clemens strike out 20 Mariners in 1986. Years later, he is accused of using and is still not in the HOF despite winning 354 games. Bottom line, I think that there are guys in the HOF who used PEDs and others who are being shunned because of voters being the upholder of some warped morality.

As for the Piazza press conference, I have not seen hims speak, but will try to find some video (should not be hard). It is surprising that he would be asked about that at his HOF presser? All of the coverage in my area has been about Griffey.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

As Colin Cowherd has said the HOF vote is 'silly old men holding grudges'

Baseball is a statistics game, the elite 5 pct statswise get in, I don't know if MLB has an official record book or not, but when I Went to mlb.com and put in Barry Bonds stats, up came 762 HR. It didn't have an asterisk next to it,his HR total was sitting there unblemished, which got me thinking that there must be some other reason he's not in the HOF.

Mlb recognizes his achievements on their official website, there's nothing that says his stats have been 'disqualified' or anything else.

Seems odd that he didn't get voted in.

They have their stats and then they have the Mitchell Report. They really do not know what to do, so nothing is done. No asterisk. Of course, the HOF voters are the sportswriters, but one would think that MLB would want their greatest players to be represented in the HOF.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Thanks for the story Kingfin66. I lived in Palm Desert a dozen miles from Palm Springs for about 5 years, the summer heat was brutal, but at least it was a dry heat. Used to go to a lot of the Angel spring training games there. Did any of the minor league umps work the major league spring training games in their area?

Minor league umps work spring training games, but they are almost all minor league games. A few lower classification umps might get to work an occasional "B" game early in spring training, but for the most part they are working A and AA games. Minor league umps' spring is spent at one team's complex and all the games involve those teams. There are typically four umpires assigned to each camp; one AAA, one AA, and two A. Sometimes there might be three A ball umps. You stay in a hotel near the complex and commute in every day.

Major League games are umpired by veteran MLB umps who are on a partial schedule (lots of days off and limited plate jobs), and vacation umpires who are competing for permanent jobs. When camp breaks, the final exhibition games in MLB cites are usually worked by MLB umpires if in a MLB city or by AAA umpires if in a AAA city. For example, the Los Angeles Angels break camp and go to Las Vegas for 1 or 2 games. Those games would be worked by Pacific Coast League umps as the MLB umps would be heading to the first city that they will be working in.

I hope that answers the question.

[NJ Stinks]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

As for the Piazza press conference, I have not seen hims speak, but will try to find some video (should not be hard). It is surprising that he would be asked about that at his HOF presser? All of the coverage in my area has been about Griffey.

Here's a bit from Thursday's NY Post - the sportswriter is Ken Davidoff:
_____________________________

I’m not here to vouch for the chemical purity of Piazza’s body of work. You would have to be naïve to not at least wonder how a 62nd-round draft pick (by the Dodgers, in 1988) muscled his way into the record books, and in his first post-election session with the Baseball Writers Association of America, he danced around questions on the matter.

“Fans understand there’s no flawless institution,” he said. “We all make mistakes as far as … We all need to understand that the game is healed and they’ve addressed the issue and we’re moving on and being as positive as can be.”


Link to entire article: http://nypost.com/2016/01/07/why-mik...rm-of-justice/

[EasyGoer89]

Originally Posted by Zaf

Its a shame Tim Raines didnt get in, He has one last shot in 2017.

Z

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/a-...-hall-of-fame/