Newest Cooperstown Inductees

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

How many here saw Griffey Jr play class A ball? He briefly played for The California league's San Bernardino Spirit when I lived in North San Bernardino in the late 80's. He wasn't even there a half season. He was the team's best hitter, including power and the best fielder without even trying. He was kind of a hot dog playing CF, purposely breaking slow on balls and then quickly running them down. Made a lot of over the shoulder and sliding catches. I have went to way more A-ball games than the Majors, just as entertaining to me and 1/5 the price for everything.

I never saw Griffey play in the minors, but I did see Piazza a lot. I was a minor league umpire in the Northwest League '89 and the California League in '91 when Piazza played in those leagues. It is amazing what hard work can do for a person. In 1989, Piazza was brand new to catching after having played 1B in junior college. He was raw in every aspect of playing the position. None of the umpires liked working a game behind him. He could not frame or block pitches, but was great at blocking the umpires' views. He had a strong arm, but terrible mechanics and accuracy when throwing. What he did have, even at that early stage, was power. He hit 8 home runs in 1989, not a huge total, but that is short season A ball.

When I saw him again in 1991, he was arguably the best player in the Cal League. He was still pretty raw behind the plate, but man he could rake! His power was amazing even then and I can tell you that he was still very thin. He filled out later and many accused him of using PEDs. In my opinion, this is a preposterous accusation. The guy was a tireless worker who got everything out of his talent. I think he played half of his career with bad knees.

People often talk of Ken Griffey Jr.s natural ability. I saw plenty of Griffey through much of his career as I live in the Seattle area. While Griffey is the best player I have ever seen, I am actually much more happy to see Piazza inducted into the HOF. That makes two players whose games I called (Pedro is the other) that have been inducted in the HOF. I am very proud to have shared the same field with them. If only my career could have been a fraction as good!

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by MutuelClerk

The entire process needs to be reviewed. I'm a Tiger fan, it angers me that Trammell gets sucked along for 15 years and doesn't make it. If he only did backflips he would have been a lock. Ron Santo was sucked along the same way, dies and gets voted in. One vote, either you make it or you don't. Totally agree about the three writers leaving Griffey off their ballots. Take away their ballots. Barry Bonds at age 42 in his last season had an OPS of 1.042 We were arguing at work the other day about the two biggest "criminals" held out of the Hall and who was a better player. Bonds or Rose? It amazed me the majority took Rose. In my mind it isn't even close and I loved Rose as a player.

I agree with you about Trammell. One of the all time great shortstops, both offensively and defensively very solid. You could even argue that Lance Parrish is a HOFer. Bonds, in my opinion, is a HOFer with or without the PEDs. Once in a while, just for the hell of it, I view his stats at baseball-reference. They are that amazing.

[Kash$]

Griffey top 10 all time.

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by cj

Like both of these. Loved Piazza's swing.

But Griffey's was sweeter.

[barahona44]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Beat me to the punch on this. WTF were they thinking?

I remember reading that Dick Young, the long time NY Daily News baseball writer, said that he knew several writers who thought nobody should get in the Hall on the first ballot unless they were a Babe Ruth or a Ty Cobb.I also wonder if any of the 3 voters didn't have their derrieres sufficiently smooched by Griffey to get their vote.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by barahona44

I remember reading that Dick Young, the long time NY Daily News baseball writer, said that he knew several writers who thought nobody should get in the Hall on the first ballot unless they were a Babe Ruth or a Ty Cobb.I also wonder if any of the 3 voters didn't have their derrieres sufficiently smooched by Griffey to get their vote.

At least its not as bad as the R & R HOF. The Beatles, Rolling Stones and Zeppelin didn't get in on their first year of eligibility.

This year, Cooperstown got it right. Out here in the Bay area, they are trying to make a case for Jeff Kent....C'mon. Kent is a good player but Hall of Fame?? That's insanity.

[Secondbest]

Look at Kent's numbers compared to other secondbasemen who were voted in.Not as insane as you think

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

I never saw Griffey play in the minors, but I did see Piazza a lot. I was a minor league umpire in the Northwest League '89 and the California League in '91 when Piazza played in those leagues. It is amazing what hard work can do for a person. In 1989, Piazza was brand new to catching after having played 1B in junior college. He was raw in every aspect of playing the position. None of the umpires liked working a game behind him. He could not frame or block pitches, but was great at blocking the umpires' views. He had a strong arm, but terrible mechanics and accuracy when throwing. What he did have, even at that early stage, was power. He hit 8 home runs in 1989, not a huge total, but that is short season A ball.

When I saw him again in 1991, he was arguably the best player in the Cal League. He was still pretty raw behind the plate, but man he could rake! His power was amazing even then and I can tell you that he was still very thin. He filled out later and many accused him of using PEDs. In my opinion, this is a preposterous accusation. The guy was a tireless worker who got everything out of his talent. I think he played half of his career with bad knees.

People often talk of Ken Griffey Jr.s natural ability. I saw plenty of Griffey through much of his career as I live in the Seattle area. While Griffey is the best player I have ever seen, I am actually much more happy to see Piazza inducted into the HOF. That makes two players whose games I called (Pedro is the other) that have been inducted in the HOF. I am very proud to have shared the same field with them. If only my career could have been a fraction as good!

Cool story, what Cal League venues did you ump at? For the record I may have drank a little too much at Cal League games but never heckled the umpires.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Cool story, what Cal League venues did you ump at? For the record I may have drank a little too much at Cal League games but never heckled the umpires.

I may not remember the names of every stadium, but:

Salinas
Stockton
Reno
San Jose
Modesto

Palm Springs
Bakersfield (Sam Lynn)
San Bernardino
Visalia
Victorville (Mavericks Stadium)

No worries about the heckling. I seldom heard it anyway with the exception of Everett WA. It is part of the experience and learning how to be an umpire, but thanks for not doing it!

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

I may not remember the names of every stadium, but:

Salinas
Stockton
Reno
San Jose
Modesto

Palm Springs
Bakersfield (Sam Lynn)
San Bernardino
Visalia
Victorville (Mavericks Stadium)

No worries about the heckling. I seldom heard it anyway with the exception of Everett WA. It is part of the experience and learning how to be an umpire, but thanks for not doing it!

Of those I was only went to Palm Springs and San Bernardino. Went to Elsinore after the Storm was there. The curious wants to know what did they pay minor league umps and what was the life like? Also how did you learn to tune people out? When I listen to ESPN radio in my work shop and they broadcast those annoying Don Le Batard show ads I have actually went over and punched the radio. I hate hearing that guy so much I have stopped listening to ESPN radio altogether.

[MutuelClerk]

Bill James should be in the HOF. He really opened my eyes to baseball in the 80's. Couldn't wait for the Baseball Abstract every year.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Valuist

At least its not as bad as the R & R HOF. The Beatles, Rolling Stones and Zeppelin didn't get in on their first year of eligibility.

This year, Cooperstown got it right. Out here in the Bay area, they are trying to make a case for Jeff Kent....C'mon. Kent is a good player but Hall of Fame?? That's insanity.

Did you move? Weren't you once in Chicago or thereabouts?

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Valuist

At least its not as bad as the R & R HOF. The Beatles, Rolling Stones and Zeppelin didn't get in on their first year of eligibility.

This year, Cooperstown got it right. Out here in the Bay area, they are trying to make a case for Jeff Kent....C'mon. Kent is a good player but Hall of Fame?? That's insanity.

I never liked Kent much as a Giant,
and I'm not alone among Giants fans.

Sure, he put up good numbers.
His attitude towards teammates?
Questionable.

The guy was very happy to become a Dodger.
That never sits well with Giants fans.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Of those I was only went to Palm Springs and San Bernardino. Went to Elsinore after the Storm was there. The curious wants to know what did they pay minor league umps and what was the life like? Also how did you learn to tune people out? When I listen to ESPN radio in my work shop and they broadcast those annoying Don Le Batard show ads I have actually went over and punched the radio. I hate hearing that guy so much I have stopped listening to ESPN radio altogether.

The pay was very, very low throughout the minors and remains so to this day. When I started in short season A ball I made $1,600/month. I was also a driver and received a mileage allowance which paid for our gas from city to city. During my 1st and 2nd seasons, I had to pay all expenses out of my paycheck: food, motel, laundry, clubhouse tips, etc. Prior to the 2nd season, Commissioner Faye Vincent gave all minor league umpires an across the board $500/month raise! This was greatly appreciated and I told the Commish as much when I met him during spring training in 1991. I really like Mr. Vincent as our Commish.

One thing that helped to defray costs was that at least one or two of the umpires lived within the league that we worked. For example, I lived in Marysville, WA which was just north of Everett and about an hour from Bellingham, WA. All of the crews stayed at my (my parents' really) home gratis. This was the case in the Cal League as well...for the first year.

During my 3rd season (2nd in the Cal League), the teams cut a deal with the leagues and our hotels were provided for us. We thought that this was a great deal until we realized that our raise was gone. What made matters worse is that because the team was effectively required to provide a hotel room, we were required to stay in them. Even worse, the teams seemed to know whether we actually did stay in them and we would be fined if we didn't. One crew actually checked into the room, messed up the blankets and sheets on the bed ran water, got towels wet, then left and stayed at one of the crew members' actual residence. They were found out and fined. The kicker is that the umpire, now an MLB umpire, was married and had a new baby at home, but our league president, a major mofo named Joe Gagliardi, would not make an exception. Pay for that season was $1,800.

Triple AAA umpires received $3,000 prior to the raise and $3,500 after. I am not sure about the hotel situation, but they do fly from city to city. The last time I checked on wages, about two years ago - they had not changed very much at all!

Life is actually pretty hard on the road, but it doesn't seem that way when you are in the moment because you are focused on advancement and, hopefully, an opportunity to make The Show. The NW League was better because you got to stay in each town for a 5 game series. It was also not as hot as the Cal League. The Cal League was much better in the north because it was not as hot. The south was brutal, especially Palm Springs. In the Cal League the drives were shorter, but you moved every 2-3 days. There were even a few 1-game series.

The worst things that happened to me when I worked were injury and illness. The 1991 season was a nightmare as I was injured about a month into the season and had to be out for 6-weeks (broken collarbone). When I called the Umpire Development HQ to report the injury the next day, the question that I was asked was, "Did you finish the game?" Thanks for the concern! For the record, I did finish the game even though I could not lift my right arm to call strikes. The game finished with a tag play at the plate. I got an awful sore throat in the desert and had to find an urgent care and a doctor for treatment. Fortunately, minor league umps have decent health insurance, but it is still being sick when you are away from home.

Dealing with team personnel can be hit and miss. Some are very nice and great to work with while others consider umpires to be a necessary evil. Even the trainers can be rough. For example, you could break your collarbone and not even have them come out to check on you. Or you could catch a foul ball off your forearm and think your arm is broken and not get a check. There is a guy by the name of Geoff Clark who was great. He was the trainer for the Salem Dodgers. Not only did he procure a Raul Mondesi bat for me, but he made sure that he got us food, and went out with us after games. Anybody reading this should Google him. He became a trainer for NBA teams and actually gave one of his kidneys to a complete stranger. Definitely a good person!

Learning to tune out fans is not that difficult because umpiring requires total focus and concentration. Baseball is such a fast game that you have to be careful not to blink at the wrong time or you can miss something very important; a pitch, check swing, etc. Once in a while, you do hear fans when either the stadium is deserted and sound carries, or when they say things that are funny and creative. One trick that that I also learned was to find a target in the stands, ideally a pretty girl, and direct strike calls to them. The weirdest thing I ever heard was a radio announcer calling the game in the press box behind me in a low press box. At the beginning of the game, he was naming me as the plate umpire and telling where I was from. It was actually pretty cool until I heard him referring to pitches as close. Tuned him out.

One thing that the average fan does not know is that mascots or their handlers will consult with the umps before the game to let them know how the act will go. They don't want the umps to be surprised. They especially do not want to be physically injured by the umpires. For example, one mascot, the Miami Miracle or something to that effect, asked me to punch in the nose. He was careful to ask me to pull the punch as he had been knocked out by an umpire in the past. It sucked when we worked with The Chicken. He focuses his act on the plate umpire, but I had the based that night so was left out of most of the act. I was really pissed to learn later that my partner got a tip from the Chicken while I got zip. The worst mascot that I ever encountered was Max Patkin, the Clown Prince of Baseball. He was the guy featured in Bull Durham. He ended up sharing our dressing room. He was a vulgar, bitter man and his act was not funny at all. In fact, I heard that the fans were so offended by him that the team did not ask him back.

Hope this helps. I doubt that much has changed over the years with the exception of the ballparks getting much, much nicer.

[kingfin66]

I am overall very dissatisfied with the HOF voting process. There really does not seem to be any transparency with the vote or any type of set criteria for what gets somebody in. I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that somebody should automatically get in for 500 HRs, 3000 hits, 300 wins etc., but those are some awfully good achievements. Of course, great fielders are important as well and do not put up those great numbers. The HOF discriminates against those types of players.

In my opinion, guys like Edgar Martinez, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Trevor Hoffman are HOFers. I also think that Clemens and Bonds should get in. Pete too. At some point, it has to be determined how the players in the steroids era will be dealt with. Nothing has been proven yet some players are being blackballed.