Tonalist-John Velazquez

[EMD4ME]

When at Aqueduct last week, I was told that Clement had given JV a 3 race commitment. Well after JV destroyed Tonalist for 3 straight starts, 1) Is he finally going to be removed from Tonalist? 2) Anyone hear anything about Rosario getting back on?

Just curious as I just can't see JV getting a chance to kill this horse for a 4th straight time. This horse deserves better than the rides he's been getting this year.

[cj]

I don't think JRV has given the greatest rides by a long shot, but I'm also not sure Tonalist is all that good either.

[EMD4ME]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Tonalist is a monster at this point either. I was hoping he'd progress more as a 4 YO but JV has totally taken away the ability to see how much, if any, he has progressed with his 3 bonehead rides this year.

I just want to see the horse be given a chance to show what he has.

So, I take it there's no news on a new pilot just yet.

[ebcorde]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

When at Aqueduct last week, I was told that Clement had given JV a 3 race commitment. Well after JV destroyed Tonalist for 3 straight starts, 1) Is he finally going to be removed from Tonalist? 2) Anyone hear anything about Rosario getting back on?

Just curious as I just can't see JV getting a chance to kill this horse for a 4th straight time. This horse deserves better than the rides he's been getting this year.

IMHO. Tonalist is a typical plodder. somtimes he wins, sometimes he does not. He's great for exotic bets.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by ebcorde

IMHO. Tonalist is a typical plodder. somtimes he wins, sometimes he does not. He's great for exotic bets.

He could have become one this year. He has broken slow in all 4 of his starts.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Tonalist is a monster at this point either. I was hoping he'd progress more as a 4 YO but JV has totally taken away the ability to see how much, if any, he has progressed with his 3 bonehead rides this year.

I just want to see the horse be given a chance to show what he has.

So, I take it there's no news on a new pilot just yet.

He's a horse who needs to be ridden and handled a certain way, JV is not the right jock for him, improvement expected on the switch if there is one.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

He's a horse who needs to be ridden and handled a certain way, JV is not the right jock for him, improvement expected on the switch if there is one.

Boy do I wish Ramon rode him in the Met, Suburban and Whitney.

He would've been 3 for 3 in his last three.

Ramon-Only jockey to move a horse up.

JV-one of many to totally bring a horse down in performance.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Boy do I wish Ramon rode him in the Met, Suburban and Whitney.

He would've been 3 for 3 in his last three.

Ramon-Only jockey to move a horse up.

JV-one of many to totally bring a horse down in performance.

Jesus could have ridden him in last two and he wasn't beating Honor Code. NO One including AP was beating Honor Code in the Met Mile. They went 44 to the half going 8 furlongs. He enhailed them.

In the Whitney everything kind of went Honor Code's way in terms of the field different out and him sneaking up the rail. Tonalist was back farther than he should have been but honestly given how he couldn't get up for second I doubt he was winning given the trip.

That being said Tonalist's real problem is Honor Code. they're both closers but Honor Code is a better finisher. So in any race where they both fire and they're both in the back I don't see how Tonalist can beat him on the square. It's no different than two need the lead horses and one is just quicker than the other. Clement should duck Honor Code.

Btw... Castellano and Ramon are 99% the same rider. Same style, same skill, same country, good friends. They're essentially interchangeable.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

Jesus could have ridden him in last two and he wasn't beating Honor Code. NO One including AP was beating Honor Code in the Met Mile. They went 44 to the half going 8 furlongs. He enhailed them.

In the Whitney everything kind of went Honor Code's way in terms of the field different out and him sneaking up the rail. Tonalist was back farther than he should have been but honestly given how he couldn't get up for second I doubt he was winning given the trip.

That being said Tonalist's real problem is Honor Code. they're both closers but Honor Code is a better finisher. So in any race where they both fire and they're both in the back I don't see how Tonalist can beat him on the square. It's no different than two need the lead horses and one is just quicker than the other. Clement should duck Honor Code.

Btw... Castellano and Ramon are 99% the same rider. Same style, same skill, same country, good friends. They're essentially interchangeable.

PLEASE DONT EVER INSULT RAMON AGAIN. CALLING HIM 99 % THE SAME AS CASTELLANO IS THE BIGGEST CURSE YOU COULD EVER CALL HIM

[EMD4ME]

QUOTE:" Tonalist was back farther than he should have been but honestly given how he couldn't get up for second I doubt he was winning given the trip."

That being said Tonalist's real problem is Honor Code. they're both closers but Honor Code is a better finisher. So in any race where they both fire and they're both in the back I don't see how Tonalist can beat him on the square. It's no different than two need the lead horses and one is just quicker than the other. Clement should duck Honor Code.

Btw... Castellano and Ramon are 99% the same rider. Same style, same skill, same country, good friends. They're essentially interchangeable.[/QUOTE]

Now, I don't know what race you watched in the Whitney BUT....

As they entered the CT I was screaming clear HIM CLEAR HIM CLEAR HIM. My friend said: What are you screaming for? Liam's Map already HAS the lead. I quickly pointed to the right side of the screen and said JV, cut off Honor Code you idiot. Tonalist was ahead of HC and HAD a 3 wide horse to his outside to USE A SHIELD IF HE DID CLEAR HC. In addition, in the early part of the backstretch, Tonalist was outside and ahead of Honor Code. JV refused to cut him off and use the 3 wide horse as a shield.

DIPSTICK JV allowed HC up the rail late backstretch, he spent the entire far turn BEING REACTIVE INSTEAD OF PROACTIVE (RAMON WAS SO PROACTIVE YOU COULD CALL HIM A PSYCHIC-STUPID JOCKS ARE REACTIVE AND REACT WHEN IT'S TOO LATE TO FIX THEIR INABILITY TO PROACTIVE) CHASING OUTSIDE OF HONOR CODE AS HONOR CODE WAS RATTLING OFF HIS OWN FAST LATE furlongs.

OF COURSE Tonalist was beaten by Honor Code. American Pharoah can be beaten with brain dead rides like this. Secretariat can be beaten with brain dead rides like this.

Please, before you speak, look at the replays of what actually happened.

[EMD4ME]

As for the MET. Watch that replay closely again. I'm tired of pointing out where Johnny blew that race as well.

And....Before you ask about the middle race (Suburban). Migliore said that JV took it like a man and said he gave Tonalist a BAD ride.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

PLEASE DONT EVER INSULT RAMON AGAIN. CALLING HIM 99 % THE SAME AS CASTELLANO IS THE BIGGEST CURSE YOU COULD EVER CALL HIM

The most amusing part of this is JC and Ramon are close friends and Ramon would be the first to tell you JC's the better jockey.

And I say that as a huge Ramon fan.

They're about equal in my book but if you talk to Ramon he speaks VERY highly of JC.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

The most amusing part of this is JC and Ramon are close friends and Ramon would be the first to tell you JC's the better jockey.

And I say that as a huge Ramon fan.

They're about equal in my book but if you talk to Ramon he speaks VERY highly of JC.

Maybe your obtuse and don't see another angle to that?

Ramon is by FFFFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Eons ahead of Javier and because of Ramon's gentlemenly demeanor, of course he is humble and polite, hence his compliment of others.

Castellano couldn't hold Ramon's jock strap for a NANOSECOND.

If you don't see that, please keep feeding pools as you're probably missing a whole lot more.

Sorry to be a jerk about this, seriously. But the fact that THIS is even a discussion is insulting to the LEGENDARY RAMON DOMINGUEZ.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

QUOTE:" Tonalist was back farther than he should have been but honestly given how he couldn't get up for second I doubt he was winning given the trip."

That being said Tonalist's real problem is Honor Code. they're both closers but Honor Code is a better finisher. So in any race where they both fire and they're both in the back I don't see how Tonalist can beat him on the square. It's no different than two need the lead horses and one is just quicker than the other. Clement should duck Honor Code.

Btw... Castellano and Ramon are 99% the same rider. Same style, same skill, same country, good friends. They're essentially interchangeable.

Now, I don't know what race you watched in the Whitney BUT....

As they entered the CT I was screaming clear HIM CLEAR HIM CLEAR HIM. My friend said: What are you screaming for? Liam's Map already HAS the lead. I quickly pointed to the right side of the screen and said JV, cut off Honor Code you idiot. Tonalist was ahead of HC and HAD a 3 wide horse to his outside to USE A SHIELD IF HE DID CLEAR HC. In addition, in the early part of the backstretch, Tonalist was outside and ahead of Honor Code. JV refused to cut him off and use the 3 wide horse as a shield.

DIPSTICK JV allowed HC up the rail late backstretch, he spent the entire far turn BEING REACTIVE INSTEAD OF PROACTIVE (RAMON WAS SO PROACTIVE YOU COULD CALL HIM A PSYCHIC-STUPID JOCKS ARE REACTIVE AND REACT WHEN IT'S TOO LATE TO FIX THEIR INABILITY TO PROACTIVE) CHASING OUTSIDE OF HONOR CODE AS HONOR CODE WAS RATTLING OFF HIS OWN FAST LATE furlongs.

OF COURSE Tonalist was beaten by Honor Code. American Pharoah can be beaten with brain dead rides like this. Secretariat can be beaten with brain dead rides like this.

Please, before you speak, look at the replays of what actually happened.[/QUOTE]


Yeah I watched the replay of both races several times and I get that Johnny blew it by not getting Tonalist in front of Honor Code early in both races. There's no way it matters in the Met but it was certainly more felonious in the Whitney. Your right that its horrible he couldn't get in front of him in the first turn. Clement should be angry

I'm not disputing he gave the horse a crappy ride. I'm disputing it would have changed the outcome. Honor Code just closes faster than him. He needs big seperation from Honor Code to win. Even if he's a length or two ahead of him I think Honor Codes runs him down with a square trip. Like I said if he got up for second I'd feel less comfortable saying that.

I just think Honor Code is more of a closer while Tonalist is like other people said a pludder. He's a horse that kicks out consistent quarters all through a race.

If Rosario gets back on him I think he tries to get him much closer early.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

Now, I don't know what race you watched in the Whitney BUT....

As they entered the CT I was screaming clear HIM CLEAR HIM CLEAR HIM. My friend said: What are you screaming for? Liam's Map already HAS the lead. I quickly pointed to the right side of the screen and said JV, cut off Honor Code you idiot. Tonalist was ahead of HC and HAD a 3 wide horse to his outside to USE A SHIELD IF HE DID CLEAR HC. In addition, in the early part of the backstretch, Tonalist was outside and ahead of Honor Code. JV refused to cut him off and use the 3 wide horse as a shield.

DIPSTICK JV allowed HC up the rail late backstretch, he spent the entire far turn BEING REACTIVE INSTEAD OF PROACTIVE (RAMON WAS SO PROACTIVE YOU COULD CALL HIM A PSYCHIC-STUPID JOCKS ARE REACTIVE AND REACT WHEN IT'S TOO LATE TO FIX THEIR INABILITY TO PROACTIVE) CHASING OUTSIDE OF HONOR CODE AS HONOR CODE WAS RATTLING OFF HIS OWN FAST LATE furlongs.

OF COURSE Tonalist was beaten by Honor Code. American Pharoah can be beaten with brain dead rides like this. Secretariat can be beaten with brain dead rides like this.

Please, before you speak, look at the replays of what actually happened.

Yeah I watched the replay of both races several times and I get that Johnny blew it by not getting Tonalist in front of Honor Code early in both races. There's no way it matters in the Met but it was certainly more felonious in the Whitney. Your right that its horrible he couldn't get in front of him in the first turn. Clement should be angry

I'm not disputing he gave the horse a crappy ride. I'm disputing it would have changed the outcome. Honor Code just closes faster than him. He needs big seperation from Honor Code to win. Even if he's a length or two ahead of him I think Honor Codes runs him down with a square trip. Like I said if he got up for second I'd feel less comfortable saying that.

I just think Honor Code is more of a closer while Tonalist is like other people said a pludder. He's a horse that kicks out consistent quarters all through a race.

If Rosario gets back on him I think he tries to get him much closer early.[/QUOTE]

Tonalist was in front of HC in the MET. It was JV's stupid pump right after the start (INTO A 4 HORSE WALL) that took the closing starch out of Tonalist, hence HC's rally past him.

In the Whitney, if JV clears HC, he has the rail into the far turn, rallying into the 3rd and 4th quarters INSIDE OF HC, as opposed to the opposite.

HUGE difference in trips.

Night and day.