131 TimeformUS for American Pharoah

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Differ all you want. Keep up your own planning and opining all you wish. Just saying take some time to look up and around because otherwise it will all be over before you do.

Whose fault is that?

[Kash$]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I guess I missed the videos of a horse taking command of 3 consecutive Gr 1 races without even being asked.

Any of Spectacular Bids races as a four year..Carrying weight over 130

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Whose fault is that?

It would be the fault of those too busy to enjoy the moment. Nothing lasts forever. We've been given what everyone has been clamoring for and despairing would never happen and now all that anyone seems to say is "what's next". We'll know in good time and get there when we get there, but the answer could always be nothing, so enjoy it while you have it.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Kash$

Any of Spectacular Bids races as a four year..Carrying weight over 130

This horse is 3 and seems to still be getting better. Any better ideas?

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I guess I missed the videos of a horse taking command of 3 consecutive Gr 1 races without even being asked.

AP may have taken command of the last three races, but he did exactly what his jockey asked him to do. You're being too romantic about AP's performance.

[Kash$]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

This horse is 3 and seems to still be getting better. Any better ideas?

We will never know he wont run as a 4 year old..So its pointless.

[Tor Ekman]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

It would be the fault of those too busy to enjoy the moment. Nothing lasts forever. We've been given what everyone has been clamoring for and despairing would never happen and now all that anyone seems to say is "what's next". We'll know in good time and get there when we get there, but the answer could always be nothing, so enjoy it while you have it.

Well said

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

It would be the fault of those too busy to enjoy the moment. Nothing lasts forever. We've been given what everyone has been clamoring for and despairing would never happen and now all that anyone seems to say is "what's next". We'll know in good time and get there when we get there, but the answer could always be nothing, so enjoy it while you have it.

I agree with you. I can't go so far as to say I've never seen efforts like these before (maybe not all from one horse), but whether he's a great or an all-time great is still to be determined. I'm just enjoying seeing a horse at the top of his game and wondering what he can do for an encore.

[rastajenk]

He keeps people talking. That's a plus factor.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by tucker6

AP may have taken command of the last three races, but he did exactly what his jockey asked him to do. You're being too romantic about AP's performance.

Nothing romantic about it. Watching with a technical eye. All you need to see it the jock not moving and the horse moving away on its own, ears up and galloping. When he turned into the stretch the last 3 he wasn't even running yet. In the last he never did. There are quality horses in his group and he beat them at a gallop. That's all I see. Can't say I even particularly like him like I have some others but I have to respect the hell out of what he has done. If I was breeding horses though, I'd be going to his sire to try to make another one of him.

[reckless]

First of all, a thanks to CJ for providing the TimeForm figs for us.

I am of the following opinions:

The 3YO crop is rather weak. Yes, at times, Texas Red, Dortmund and Firing Line have raced brilliantly. But to me, the crop ranges from average to mediocre to piss-poor.

Still, American Pharoah's performances winning the Triple Crown and The Haskell should never be discounted to say the least.

I hope American Pharoah runs in the Travers to face Texas Red and Upstart. I was visually impressed with Texas Red in the Jim Dandy in that he might have been forced to lay closer to the early pace than where he is most comfortable. Still, Texas Red was able to finish strongly. I like him a lot and I think Keith Desormeaux is great too.

I think Texas Red is on the upswing so I expect (and hope) a much better and improved effort in the Travers. He just might make AP 'run' this time.

What can I say about the Haskell?

At worst, the race was a breakthrough effort by AP -- he entered a much higher plane on Sunday, both by winning in the way he did it and the time. At best, he is now entering the elevated road of being compared to some of the all-time greats.

I mean, as we all know, American Pharoah went 9 furlongs while in an open gallop, and he went :23.22 :46.14 1:09.60 1:34.44 1:47.95 !

Not a phony fraction in the race.

I am not a fan of Keen Ice yet I guess both he and Upstart probably ran all-time bests in the Haskell. This is one of the few flaws in doing performance figures: too many horses suck into high numbers due to big efforts earned by the winner. They get high figs despite not doing any real running themselves.

At this time, it looks like only Texas Red has a modest chance of beating American Pharoah, either at Spa, or any place else. No other horse seems capable of coming close to him.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by castaway01

I agree with you. I can't go so far as to say I've never seen efforts like these before (maybe not all from one horse), but whether he's a great or an all-time great is still to be determined. I'm just enjoying seeing a horse at the top of his game and wondering what he can do for an encore.

Me too...this horse is indeed something special. He's scared me from day 1, but I've always bet against...

But I respect the hell out of him, and enjoy debating as well as taking it all in...

[Broad Brush]

Originally Posted by cj

I agree...what is the point? I'm not saying scrub on the horse, but just let him finish on his own.

I thought this was a cool comparison:

I am not knowledgeable at all on a horse's stride. But, it seemed to me
that coming down the stretch AP's legs were moving back and forth a lot
slower than the other horses. This tells me he covers a lot more ground
per stride than the others.

While I never bet favorites, I really do hope he crushes everything in his path.

[CosmicWon]

Originally Posted by Broad Brush

I am not knowledgeable at all on a horse's stride. But, it seemed to me
that coming down the stretch AP's legs were moving back and forth a lot
slower than the other horses. This tells me he covers a lot more ground
per stride than the others.

While I never bet favorites, I really do hope he crushes everything in his path.

Not to say AP's stride isn't fantastic but that "diagram" has at least two things misleading about it:
1) the horses are clearly measured using different legs with Secretariat on his outside lead with right front and hind moving in opposition while AP is at a point in his stride where the angle is placed on left front and right hind.
2) Notice the fulcrum in both pictures--it starts in space above AP while it's directly on Big Red's saddle towel.

Now I'm surely not about to I grab my protractor and measure this hot mess diagram, but I've never read one study that validates the assumption that stride length equates to "fastness" in regards to biomechanics. If that was the case, Yao Ming would be a sub-4:00 mile superstar instead of a lumbering, fragile low post.

The stride length on this future HoFer isn't too shabby either:

[cj]

Honor Code ran a 125 today, Liam's Map a 130 in defeat, Tonalist a 123.