131 TimeformUS for American Pharoah

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The horse can only beat the competition that they place around him, so, I can't harp too much about the quality of the field that American Pharoah demolished yesterday. The older horse division is in shambles this year...and we all know that. The 131 speed figure surprises me though...and I wonder where Keen Ice's 125 rates among the speed figures registered this year.

The 128 is average for a G1 for older horses. The best older horses usually hit the 130s.

The best older horses to run lately have been in the 127-128 range in routes, not a strong group. Like I said, most years that is average or below and those are the best so far.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Grits

Goodness no. Not demeaning in any way. Mr.Jordan folded early. Too, they showed on tape his severe bolting problems. Unbelievable. It made me wish, prior to the start ... that he wasn't in the race.

Thank you. Sometimes you can't definitively interpret what someone means on the web. Thanks for clarifying.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by TravisVOX

I was on Twitter this AM applauding how his rivals actually raced him yesterday and by doing so it allows us to appreciate good performances more while also satisfying horse player curiosity.

Not that what I think matters for much, but I was far more satisfied/impressed by what he did yesterday than his cupcake lead in the Belmont Stakes. And to think, he smacked those horses around yesterday AFTER having won the Triple Crown.

Great post Travis. I wholeheartedly agree. Liked the fact that Mikey sent. Like the fact that Jordan tried to press. Like the fact that Upstart was ridden hard in the third quarter to attack (but couldnt).

I too was more impressed with the Haskell as opposed to the boat race in the Belmont.

I want to see how well Edge and Upstart run in their next starts. That will say a lot as well.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Surprised EMD thought of the Haskell like that. I truly expected him to come here and say easy race against a bunch of tomato cans..."just like I predicted."

What was so awesome about the Haskell? Compared to say...the Belmont Stakes, with all the pressure for the Triple Crown (his connections more so than the horse obviously), AND the 1 1/2 mile distance...the fast final Belmont time...the quick and steady internal fractions...

Yeah, he had the lead and had it his own way in the Belmont...

But how was everything pretty much NOT his own way in the Haskell? Except he didn't have the lead...but he's NOT a need-to-lead type anyway?

It was a cakewalk in the Haskell...a much less WOW of a performance than the Belmont, where AT LEAST he had to go a distance that probably was not exactly his best...

Curious to know what the Beyer was...I haven't read all the other threads on the board yet so maybe someone posted elsewhere...

I think my best answer was he "won like a 1-9 shot should."

I don't one is more impressive than the other. I think they're different. In the Belmont it was impressive to see him handle the distance, fourth race in a short time and beat horses who skipped the Preakness.

The Haskell was different. He beat nobody but Victor never hit him nor even let him run. Then he dropped the anchor in mid stretch. He still ran 8 furlongs in 1:47.4 only a second off the track record.

While the Belmont was an impressive feat the Haskell was impressive in his ease. After the race my immediate thought was will we get to see the bottom of the tank before he's retired. He ran a 109 Beyer in a literal cantor. What's the bottom look like? 120? 130? 140?

I want to see him REALLY run before he goes away.

[BlinkersOn]

AP was eased the last fg. of the Haskell. Victor never asked anything of him, or he could have won by many lengths. I saw Secretariat win the Belmont...impressive, yes. His only competition in the 4 horse field was Sham, and once he was put away, Turcotte just put on a show for the fans. He wasn't happy with just winning the race, he wanted to run Secretariat as fast as he could, and he did. It was a magnificent sight, but aside from Sham, there was no competition in that field at all. One jockey loved to showboat, and the other, Espinoza is careful. The only time he had to ask AP for anything was in the Derby, where he didn't have the best trip. Since then, the wins have been easy, and frankly the fields weak.

Until he faces some real competition in the BC Classic, we aren't going to see the horse break a sweat. I think that's when we will really get to see all AP has in the tank. I hope to see Texas Red and Honor Code there, and a great race.

Again, just thinking out louds...in words. I think he's a very special animal in a day when horses are bred for speed and not stamina.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by cj

Fastest figure of the year for all horses, fastest 3yo since Rachel Alexandra ran a 136 in the Haskell. Could he have topped that if asked to run? I think so, probably a 140 horse in my opinion.

Can i ask what was keen ice's number.

Allan

[cj]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

Can i ask what was keen ice's number.

Allan

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...37&postcount=5

[zerosky]

This is the view from the uk's racing post

Haskell win ranks as the best performance in a race restricted to three-year-olds since Frankel's 2000 Guineas romp (133).

Story here...

[cj]

Originally Posted by zerosky

This is the view from the uk's racing post

Haskell win ranks as the best performance in a race restricted to three-year-olds since Frankel's 2000 Guineas romp (133).

Story here...

Timeform rated him 136.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by cj

Timeform rated him 136.

Found an article that showed top Timeform figs of all time (does not include US except for major races. To give historical perspective, only 14 runners have ever earned a 140 or better. This goes back to the 40s. Franked tops at 147. Best US based runner is Cigar at 138. Ghostzapper, Sunday Silence and Easy Goer have 137s. That's how good they think he is.

Everyone needs to quit worrying about where he races next and just enjoy an exceptional horse. His last 3 races have been races like I have never seen.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

His last 3 races have been races like I have never seen.

You don't have Youtube?

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Found an article that showed top Timeform figs of all time (does not include US except for major races. To give historical perspective, only 14 runners have ever earned a 140 or better. This goes back to the 40s. Franked tops at 147. Best US based runner is Cigar at 138. Ghostzapper, Sunday Silence and Easy Goer have 137s. That's how good they think he is.

Everyone needs to quit worrying about where he races next and just enjoy an exceptional horse. His last 3 races have been races like I have never seen.

Well said !!

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Everyone needs to quit worrying about where he races next and just enjoy an exceptional horse.

I beg to differ here.
It's definitely a relevant topic of discussion.

Planning campaigns is an important part of this sport.
Obviously, the connections make the only decisions that matter.
For the layperson, it's an opportunity to express opinions.
Nothing more, nothing less.

I suppose we could ban all "armchair quarterbacking" and sit in silence.
It's apparent, though, that plenty of people enjoying giving their two cents.
Those who happen to find it tedious have plenty of other threads to enjoy.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by tucker6

You don't have Youtube?

I guess I missed the videos of a horse taking command of 3 consecutive Gr 1 races without even being asked.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

I beg to differ here.
It's definitely a relevant topic of discussion.

Planning campaigns is an important part of this sport.
Obviously, the connections make the only decisions that matter.
For the layperson, it's an opportunity to express opinions.
Nothing more, nothing less.

I suppose we could ban all "armchair quarterbacking" and sit in silence.
It's apparent, though, that plenty of people enjoying giving their two cents.
Those who happen to find it tedious have plenty of other threads to enjoy.

Differ all you want. Keep up your own planning and opining all you wish. Just saying take some time to look up and around because otherwise it will all be over before you do.