Worlds Best Horse

[maclr11]

Horses to win the Whitney, Woodward and JCGC in same year
Kelso (1961 and 1963)
Slew O'Gold (1984)
Easy Goer (1989)


Horses to win the Woodward, JCGC and BC Classic in same year
Cigar (1995)



A couple of horses have won the Woodward and JCGC and got beat in the Classic at a very short price

Slew O'Gold in 1984 and Curlin in 2008

[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by maclr11

Horses to win the Whitney, Woodward and JCGC in same year
Kelso (1961 and 1963)
Slew O'Gold (1984)
Easy Goer (1989)


Horses to win the Woodward, JCGC and BC Classic in same year
Cigar (1995)



A couple of horses have won the Woodward and JCGC and got beat in the Classic at a very short price

Slew O'Gold in 1984 and Curlin in 2008

Ah I gotta do better at fact finding. lol

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The problem lies in the insistence of some of the more renowned posters here to declare that American Pharoah is the second-coming of Secretariat.

Who are these renowned posters you speak of?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by maclr11

Horses to win the Whitney, Woodward and JCGC in same year
Kelso (1961 and 1963)
Slew O'Gold (1984)
Easy Goer (1989)


Horses to win the Woodward, JCGC and BC Classic in same year
Cigar (1995)



A couple of horses have won the Woodward and JCGC and got beat in the Classic at a very short price

Slew O'Gold in 1984 and Curlin in 2008

Thanks. Makes me wonder if I as well as most everyone under appreciates slew o'gold.

[Steve R]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Thorograph had his Derby as a -3 (which is very fast for a 3yo).

Timeform has his Belmont much faster than other people.

The Preakness was run in absolute sudden bog. The horse set a very fast pace that took out the rest of the chasers (which made any kind figure projection based off the losers virtually impossible), and he won with plenty in reserve. That figure was pure guesswork even if a reasonable case could be made that it tied well with the next race. Plus, even if the final time figure was correct, you still have to consider the pace and the fact he won with plenty left.

He raced well within himself in the Belmont. I argued right after the race that a good case could be made that both 1 1/2 mile races that day were probably faster than being given credit for. Given the subsequent performances of AP and Coach Inge I think I was probably right.

That is the problem with being too literal about figures. There might be a consensus that his Triple Crown races were not fast, but there are exceptions among some very sharp people. And even then, the figures don't incorporate the trips, tell you how he won, or evaluate the crop in a less time oriented way etc...

I still think this was a great crop. It's a shame Firing Line is out, Dortmund is having issues, Materiality and Carpe Deim are retired, but Texas Red, Frosted, and Upstart can run.

How does a Thorograph -3 compare with a Ragozin 4-? And I believe time is a minor component in Timeform ratings.

As for the 3yo crop I also believe they were outstanding, but so far apparently only up to 9f. There has always been a world of difference between classic distances and shorter distances. You can find plenty of horses that "belong" at 9f and a diminishing few that "belong" at 10. Tom Ainslie was a firm believer in the backstretch maxim: "Every horse's best distance can be measured with a yardstick."

[Fager Fan]

Time form is a class rating. He won the TC so they automatically gave him a top number.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Time form is a class rating. He won the TC so they automatically gave him a top number.

That is far from how it works.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Steve R

How does a Thorograph -3 compare with a Ragozin 4-? And I believe time is a minor component in Timeform ratings.

As for the 3yo crop I also believe they were outstanding, but so far apparently only up to 9f. There has always been a world of difference between classic distances and shorter distances. You can find plenty of horses that "belong" at 9f and a diminishing few that "belong" at 10. Tom Ainslie was a firm believer in the backstretch maxim: "Every horse's best distance can be measured with a yardstick."

Pretty sure Classhandicapper was talking about TimeformUS of which final time is the main part of the rating, fractions a smaller part.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by cj

That is far from how it works.

In Europe? You'd have a hard time convincing me of that.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

In Europe? You'd have a hard time convincing me of that.

I was 11 the last time we had a Triple Crown winner, so I can't say much about that one or use it for comparison. But I know that Timeform doesn't just assign high ratings because a horse wins certain races. American Pharoah was rated very highly (129) as early as the Del Mar Futurity.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Steve R

How does a Thorograph -3 compare with a Ragozin 4-? "

I'd have to say the relationship between Thorograph and Ragozin is a moving target due to figure drift.

[Steve R]

Originally Posted by cj

I was 11 the last time we had a Triple Crown winner, so I can't say much about that one or use it for comparison. But I know that Timeform doesn't just assign high ratings because a horse wins certain races. American Pharoah was rated very highly (129) as early as the Del Mar Futurity.

That's interesting because the Racing Post rated him only the co-4th best two-year-old in the U.S. last year at 116 behind Daredevil, Texas Red and Competitive Edge. And as of now he is still rated one pound below Golden Horn.