American Pharoah's next start... - Page 3 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

nads1420 · 06-19-2015, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Paynter's only major win was the Haskell, was it not? He was 4 for 11 lifetime...are you sure he was underrated? He had a nice feel-good story to him in the end, but at the time of the Haskell/Travers that year, I would call that one a tie, although I gave the edge to the Haskell on name recognition alone...but that really came later, after the Travers/Haskell of 2012.

Like I said, this millennium, the two races are tied...the Haskell certainly does NOT have a big edge.

Big Brown and Rachel were rock stars. Biggest 2 names on that list.

What did Curlin's post triple crown season look like?

Redboard · 06-19-2015, 04:06 PM

Baffert has such rotten luck in the Travers recently. Liaison(9th), Coil(10th), Bayern(10th), Roman ruler (3rd) the latter three were Haskell winners who went off at low odds. I believe the last time he won it was with Point Given.
It's a tough race to win. They don't call the SPA the graveyard of favorites for nothing.

burnsy · 06-19-2015, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nads1420

Big Brown and Rachel were rock stars. Biggest 2 names on that list.

What did Curlin's post triple crown season look like?

It looked like winning the BC Classic as a 3 yo which both of the so called "rock stars" never bothered to enter. Plus, neither of those two could touch Curlin at 10 furlongs on real dirt. That's why I love betting, often times "Rock Star" and best horse are two different things. Oh yeah, he also threw in a Jockey Gold cup that year too.........and faced really good 3 yo's during the TC campaign including Street Sense and Rags To Riches....he was a real bum.....

nads1420 · 06-19-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnsy

It looked like winning the BC Classic as a 3 yo which both of the so called "rock stars" never bothered to enter. Plus, neither of those two could touch Curlin at 10 furlongs on real dirt. That's why I love betting, often times "Rock Star" and best horse are two different things. Oh yeah, he also threw in a Jockey Gold cup that year too.........and faced really good 3 yo's during the TC campaign including Street Sense and Rags To Riches....he was a real bum.....

you took that wrong bud... 2 separate statements, i was really curious about Curlin's rest of the year... no clue how Any Given Saturday beat him in the Haskell. Curlin was a world beater. Another rock star who went in the Haskell instead of the Travers and a better horse then Street Sense who won the Travers. But i did just look it up myself after the Haskell he went JCGC then BC Classic. If its up to me id take American Pharoah on the same path... Haskell, JCGC vs California Chrome then to the Breeders Cup Classic... One last race in the Dubai World Cup. Retire the worlds richest race horse. Hell of a career.

classhandicapper · 06-19-2015, 04:31 PM

I have tickets and hotel reservations for both the Haskell and Travers.

My guess is that I am going to see American Pharoah in one and Dortmund in the other.

Personally, if AP was mine, I'd rather go in the Haskell. I think a 9F race off the freshening is a better spot to get him cranked back up than going straight back into a 10F race like the Travers that might require working him harder and turn out to be more draining. Then you springboard off the Haskell into a race against older and then the BC Classic.

Dortmund on the other hand should fit nicely into the Jim Dandy. He can use that as a prep to be back in shape for the Travers.

nijinski · 06-19-2015, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

There really is nothing subjective about it...the Travers has always been held in much higher esteem than the Haskell.

And I'm not so sure about your argument concerning "This millennium..."

There's been some pretty damn nice horses too that have won the Travers from 2000 onward (or 2001 depending on your definition of millennium).

The Travers I agree is certainly great for the resume . It's a great historic
race and a festival that week .

Since many here are comparing AP and the 70's TC winners , looking
at there losses at Saratoga , it's a TC winner's gamble . .For those
with any superstitious tendencies it's a toss

Secretariat's loses up there .Affirmed loses to Alydar via dq and Slew later
in his career did win but in an allowance .

NY BRED · 06-19-2015, 04:36 PM

SO, GUESS WHAT, WE MAY BE HAVE BEEN BLIND SIGHTED.

APPARENTLY, RUMORS SWIRILING ON TVG THAT DELMAR MAY SPIKE
THE PACIFIC CLASSIC TO 5,000,000.

QUITE INTERESTING THAT AP IS RELAXING IN CALIFORNIA.

ANYONE HAVE A LINK TO EXCHANGE BETTING???

nijinski · 06-19-2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY BRED

SO, GUESS WHAT, WE MAY BE HAVE BEEN BLIND SIGHTED.

APPARENTLY, RUMORS SWIRILING ON TVG THAT DELMAR MAY SPIKE
THE PACIFIC CLASSIC TO 5,000,000.

QUITE INTERESTING THAT AP IS RELAXING IN CALIFORNIA.

ANYONE HAVE A LINK TO EXCHANGE BETTING???

Yes it's interesting and that would keep the shipping worry out and that would keep him in that bubble Baffort hinted to

. Convenient !
AP ran well there too .
Some bashing expected if they accept .

JustRalph · 06-19-2015, 04:57 PM

Medaglia d'Oro War Emblem

History...... is just plain homophobic...... Huh?

Just because one of them was gay......no reason to talk him down.....

westny · 06-19-2015, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Medaglia d'Oro War Emblem

History...... is just plain homophobic...... Huh?

Just because one of them was gay......no reason to talk him down.....

I didn't know that...which one?

nijinski · 06-19-2015, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westny

I didn't know that...which one?

War Emblem was quite shy with the Mares at stud . Mean too
see article

Thus, for the last several years, War Emblem has lived a kind of stallion dream life. Housed in a small barn in a quiet area of Katsumi Yoshida’s Northern Farm, he has had his pick of literally hundreds of mares over the past several seasons, with more than 300 led past him in 2010 alone.

He tries to bite and threatens to kick or strike mares he doesn’t like—and sometimes the people who handle him as well.
- See more at: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/aroun....pGSpJWqs.dpuf

JustRalph · 06-20-2015, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westny

I didn't know that...which one?

It was a just a joke.......

one of them refuses to breed. and it ain't MDORO

affirmedny · 06-20-2015, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Well, given the list of winners of each race since 2001, why is it you feel the Haskell currently dwarfs the Travers?

From 2001-2014, not counting Point Given since he won both races, I have the Haskell having a ONE RACE LEAD in terms of who had the better horse winning. Perhaps you are going on overall composition of field? I don't have access or the memory for who was in the field for all years...but basing it solely on the winner, the two races are pretty much even this millennium.

So I believe you're wrong in your assessment that the Travers has taken a backseat to the Haskell during this millennium.

Code:

Year	Travers 	Haskell		
	Comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002	Medaglia d'Oro	War Emblem		Edge to Haskell (at time of race, but history showed MDO to be better horse)
2003	Ten Most Wanted	Peace Rules		Edge to Haskell
2004	Birdstone	Lion Heart		Edge to Travers
2005	Flower Alley	Roman Ruler		Edge to Travers
2006	Bernardini	Bluegrass Cat		Edge to Travers
2007	Street Sense	Any Given Saturday	Edge to Travers
2008	Colonel John	Big Brown		Edge to Haskell
2009	Summer Bird	Rachel Alexandra	Edge to Haskell
2010	Afleet Express	Lookin at Lucky		Edge to Haskell
2011	Stay Thirsty	Coil			Edge to Travers
2012	Alpha/Gldn Tckt	Paynter			Edge to Haskell
2013	Will Take Chrg	Verrazano		Edge to Travers
2014	V.E. Day	Bayern			Edge to Haskell

How can the Haskell get the edge in 2014 when the winner ran DEAD LAST in the Travers???

menifee · 06-20-2015, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by affirmedny

How can the Haskell get the edge in 2014 when the winner ran DEAD LAST in the Travers???

Bayern went on to win the BC Classic. VE Day is not a good horse. As a matter of fact, Bayern is not really that good of a horse. However, if Bayern gets a comfortable lead, he can run with the best and beat them as in the BC Classic. If Bayern does not get an easy lead (he fades like in the Travers last year). VE Day is a grade III horse as best who won the Travers because he got the perfect trip and perfect pace scenario.

I don't understand why they don't run both. The Haskell will be a paid workout.

nads1420 · 06-20-2015, 07:40 AM

most interesting thing about this thread is the fact that people are partial to NYRA... thats just flat out weird