Rank The 12 Triple Crown Winners

[BlueChip@DRF]

Secretariat made the competition look like stiffs.

[nads1420]

No respect for Pharoah jeez.... kinda redic. i mean its so hard to compare since we werent alive when most of this happened but c mon people AP had an extremely impressive triple crown season. 2nd fastest belmont time among the list. etc.. what if he adds a Haskell, another grade 1 and a breeders cup classic and calls it a day. then where does he land?

[Grits]

Originally Posted by nads1420

No respect for Pharoah jeez.... kinda redic. i mean its so hard to compare since we werent alive when most of this happened but c mon people AP had an extremely impressive triple crown season. 2nd fastest belmont time among the list. etc.. what if he adds a Haskell, another grade 1 and a breeders cup classic and calls it a day. then where does he land?

What's redic? You being fitted with a new one?

You weren't alive. Many here, were. Granted some were in 2nd grade, 5th grade, etc. Others were older, in attendance at the track, having seen not only Secretariat race, but many champions. You may like reading more of the posts in the Sec/AP thread. Included are some of the most well written compositions that have occurred here in a long time. People have tremendous passion for this sport, and have held it for decades. Its obvious.

[Gallorette]

Maybe Assault isn't getting his due on these lists. Wasn't he the "club footed comet" or something like that? Plus I think he ran like 50 times in his career. He had some pretty good obstacles and got it done. He also ran against some gamers in his time like Stymie and Armed. Very deep handicap division during those years.

[ILovetheInner]

I was there, lol! I was young, but I was obsessed living in NY and it was a very good time to be that and be there. There is a lot of nitpicking on Secretariat here, but I don't think some can fathom how larger than life he was well before the Derby. His juvenile campaign was not simply impressive....it left experienced racetrackers dumbfounded. If you want to go look at some of his tapes (the Hopeful was a great one), not only were the moves in a category beyond "sensational," but just the physical look of him - he didn't even look like a juvenile. It was jarring.

It prompted a syndication before he started at three. Seth Hancock was trying to make the deal work, and some people (including one of his mentors, Ogden Phipps) thought it was a bad mistake and did not support him.

Because it was too good to be true. He was an exceptionally mature juvenile....the others would catch up. Or, the fact that he was a Bold Ruler. That would catch up with him. All his brilliance would do him in once the real distance tests began. People waited anxiously for the house of cards to fall.

Then the Wood came, and he lost. While an excuse was given, a lot of people thought that was the inevitable coming to pass. And then came the KYD. Despite it being a quarter century since Citation, you could not take that and not somewhere know that this was it. That was part of the Secretariat magic at the time. You knew what you were seeing. As soon as the Derby was over, you knew what was happening.

His Preakness still phases me. He blew the race apart so early. A lot of people talk about horses being flexible, doing how a rider pleases and that being their strength, but Secretariat was otherworldly in that regard. His Preakness IMO was his most impressive race. The Belmont wasn't even half over when you could just lean in and bask in it.

That was many years ago. I can't talk about the earlier winners...I started watching in 1970. I have seen a lot of good horses. In time, Forego would become my bar for the ultimate racehorse. I saw two more Triple Crown winners...now three. Slew had to prove it to me, but as a horse I think he had fire, and the harder they hit the harder he came. He is to me most on par with AP, I felt much the same about him then as I do about AP now. That was nice, but that was easy....now show me what you've got. Secretariat, on the other, never won a race that wasn't intimidatingly impressive.

The only winning race where he was even in a drive ("mild") at the finish was in the slop, the surface that would come up again in his only excuse-free beat, when Jerkens' Prove Out ran a supremely strong effort. When you consider that quite a few of those handy efforts were records? Some talk about souped up tracks and that is ok I suppose, but souped up turf? lol Blowing apart a race that had Tentam and Big Spruce in it? Other worldly. That record stood for close to three decades.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Gallorette

Maybe Assault isn't getting his due on these lists. Wasn't he the "club footed comet" or something like that? Plus I think he ran like 50 times in his career.

Assault 42 18/6/7

Citation 45 32/10/2

The real workhorse was Whirlaway. 60 32/15/9
He even managed to fit in a race between the Preakness and Belmont.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by tucker6

we get it already, you are a Citation fanboy who will do anything to denigrate Secretariat so that Citation appears on top. Give it a rest. Can't you lift up Citation without trying to lower everyone else???

For the record, Secretariat raced six times against open company in his final four months of racing. What more could he have done after the Belmont to satisfy you, if indeed he could have done anything to satisfy you? It wasn't his decision to not race at 4, and frankly we didn't need to see him at four to figure out he was great. Beating stiffs? Please...

1. Citation isn't even a personal favorite. i rate Spectacular Bid and Dr Fager much higher. he's just the best of the TC winners.

2. Secretariat never carried more than 126 pounds, and was given a GIFT by the NYRA racing secretary in the Marlboro. He was deliberately kept out of races where he would have to carry real weight. And yes, the Marlboro was a good field, but most of his post TC races weren't.

Running at 4 is where horses are tested. You have to carry weight, beat open company, and prove you have longevity. Secretariat would have probably dropped a couple of rsces to Forego (or Dahlia) if he had run at 4. He had a greedy owner and people never got to see a full career.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by ILovetheInner

I was there, lol! I was young, but I was obsessed living in NY and it was a very good time to be that and be there. There is a lot of nitpicking on Secretariat here, but I don't think some can fathom how larger than life he was well before the Derby. His juvenile campaign was not simply impressive....it left experienced racetrackers dumbfounded. If you want to go look at some of his tapes (the Hopeful was a great one), not only were the moves in a category beyond "sensational," but just the physical look of him - he didn't even look like a juvenile. It was jarring.

It prompted a syndication before he started at three. Seth Hancock was trying to make the deal work, and some people (including one of his mentors, Ogden Phipps) thought it was a bad mistake and did not support him.

Because it was too good to be true. He was an exceptionally mature juvenile....the others would catch up. Or, the fact that he was a Bold Ruler. That would catch up with him. All his brilliance would do him in once the real distance tests began. People waited anxiously for the house of cards to fall.

Then the Wood came, and he lost. While an excuse was given, a lot of people thought that was the inevitable coming to pass. And then came the KYD. Despite it being a quarter century since Citation, you could not take that and not somewhere know that this was it. That was part of the Secretariat magic at the time. You knew what you were seeing. As soon as the Derby was over, you knew what was happening.

His Preakness still phases me. He blew the race apart so early. A lot of people talk about horses being flexible, doing how a rider pleases and that being their strength, but Secretariat was otherworldly in that regard. His Preakness IMO was his most impressive race. The Belmont wasn't even half over when you could just lean in and bask in it.

That was many years ago. I can't talk about the earlier winners...I started watching in 1970. I have seen a lot of good horses. In time, Forego would become my bar for the ultimate racehorse. I saw two more Triple Crown winners...now three. Slew had to prove it to me, but as a horse I think he had fire, and the harder they hit the harder he came. He is to me most on par with AP, I felt much the same about him then as I do about AP now. That was nice, but that was easy....now show me what you've got. Secretariat, on the other, never won a race that wasn't intimidatingly impressive.

The only winning race where he was even in a drive ("mild") at the finish was in the slop, the surface that would come up again in his only excuse-free beat, when Jerkens' Prove Out ran a supremely strong effort. When you consider that quite a few of those handy efforts were records? Some talk about souped up tracks and that is ok I suppose, but souped up turf? lol Blowing apart a race that had Tentam and Big Spruce in it? Other worldly. That record stood for close to three decades.

Don't confuse whipping with asking a house to run. Secretariat was all out in the Belmont, for instance.

[Grits]

He had a greedy owner and people never got to see a full career.

You've barely stated a kind word about the horse. Now you've started on the owner. Everyone in the Western Hemisphere knows the facts behind why he was syndicated. This woman had no choice. She had a father with Alzheimers disease who couldn't take care of himself, much less his farm operation and his horses. He was dying. Her only sibling, her brother wanted no part of horses.... Yeah, you're spot on. She was all about greed.

[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by Grits

You've barely stated a kind word about the horse. Now you've started on the owner. Everyone in the Western Hemisphere knows the facts behind why he was syndicated. This woman had no choice. She had a father with Alzheimers disease who couldn't take care of himself, much less his farm operation and his horses. He was dying. Her only sibling, her brother wanted no part of horses.... Yeah, you're spot on. She was all about greed.

I think it was more safe guarding rather than greed with the reason why they retired him at a young age. Penny was always worried about him breaking down because he was not like Riva Ridge who floated over the ground but rather he hammered the dirt. I think they were right for retiring him early.

[Gallorette]

Speaking of Penny, I loved the footage of her at the race last week, and her and Bob shaking hands. It's great she was able to be there.

She signed my Raymond Woolfe book about 12 years ago at Emerald Downs. She laughed because it was obviously a "well used" book. I got it for Christmas in 1973. Still holding up 42 years later!

[ronsmac]

I don't have enough knowledge of the TC winners before Secretariat, but of the last 4, I'd go 1.Secretariat 2. Seattle Slew 3. American Pharoah 4. Affirmed. I placed Seattle Slew over the other two because of the wicked fractions he set in the Flamingo , Derby and Preakness. Especially the Derby after a poor start.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Grits

Everyone in the Western Hemisphere knows the facts behind why he was syndicated. This woman had no choice. She had a father with Alzheimers disease who couldn't take care of himself, much less his farm operation and his horses. He was dying.

Almost, not quite. She had just won the Derby and Belmont with Riva Ridge. Things were not as bleak as portrayed in the movie.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

I think it was more safe guarding rather than greed with the reason why they retired him at a young age. Penny was always worried about him breaking down because he was not like Riva Ridge who floated over the ground but rather he hammered the dirt. I think they were right for retiring him early.

I'm sorry, I'm correct on this. I don't usually go this far because debate is draining. But I will this time.

It was not a sentimental, safe guard the horse, decision. It was a financial decision. None of this had anything to do with how Riva and Secretariat, each hit the ground. This was her beginning as far as her stepping in to take her father's place of management. He didn't have the clarity or the function of brain cells to run a farm any longer. I've quoted from the book, Secretariat, by Raymie Woolfe.

Too, I've met her, having been in her home when she lived in Lexington, around 1999-2000, to give her a check for Secretariat's bronze statue at the Kentucky Horse Park. The new, life size one. I called her Mrs.Chenery as her presence was as commanding as her big red horse was. Still, she was extremely gracious and loved talking about Secretariat. .... The farm itself, in Virginia, I've walked all over, photographing it. The main house is gone. The barns, all have been repainted, white with blue trim. Old hand pumped wells by each barn. Beautiful land, all under lock and key.

..... I'm sorry, but I was mistaken regarding her having only one sibling, a brother. She had a sister as well. And both wanted no part of horses or farming.

Christopher Chenery's health began to fail seriously in the mid 1960s. For the first time, there was a whisper of concern for the Meadow's future, for its guiding genius began to fade, and so did its fortunes.

In October 1967, Chenery unaccountably agreed to sell four of his best bred stakes mares. Penny decided something had to be done, and quickly. She stepped in and stopped the sale of one mare. Even though she knew that there was an element of unfair advantage in the transactions, she honored the sale of the other three.

Sorry, I ain't going on the movie, it touched in detail on little of this. I'm going on the book and what she told Raymie Woolfe who traveled with her throughout Secretariat's racing career. It was released decades ago. Her father's 2600 acre farm and breeding operation were in trouble before Riva and Secretariat won anything. She had even decided to terminate the annual "coin toss" arrangement with the Phippses after 1968.

Almost, not quite. She had just won the Derby and Belmont with Riva Ridge. Things were not as bleak as portrayed in the movie.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

I think it was more safe guarding rather than greed with the reason why they retired him at a young age. Penny was always worried about him breaking down because he was not like Riva Ridge who floated over the ground but rather he hammered the dirt. I think they were right for retiring him early.

more knowledge and less typing would do you good.