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Old 04-08-2015, 01:10 PM   #1
Al Gobbi
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Woodbine adds thoroughbred $0.20 Pick 5

Woodbine Entertainment Group (WEG) today announced the addition of an new wager to its daily betting menu.

The $0.20 Thoroughbred Pick 5 will require horseplayers to select the winner of five consecutive races, starting from Race 2 through Race 6. The new wager, which will offer a 20-cent minimum, makes its debut on Saturday, April 11, opening day of the 2015 Thoroughbred meet.

The $0.20 Thoroughbred Pick 5 will have a 25% takeout.

http://www.woodbineentertainment.com...7-c12cc8aedb8d
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:20 PM   #2
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25%?

Isn't the industry "Standard" 14?

*emoticon with the little man shrugging shoulders with arms horizontal to the ground and palms facing in the air saying "dunno"*
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:30 PM   #3
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The complaints are being logged. This is well outside the takeout norm that regular customers have expected from racetracks with regards to the pick 5.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation....mes-after.html
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by DeanT
The complaints are being logged. This is well outside the takeout norm that regular customers have expected from racetracks with regards to the pick 5.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation....mes-after.html
Not only that, but the 20 cent minimum makes it "easier" to hit, its less "lucrative" at the top of the oddsboard which defeats the purpose to begin with. The idea is to maybe make a life changing score, people want to win tens of thousands on this bet and its possible with a 50 cent base, no need to have this at 20 cents. Personally i would prefer it to be a 1 dollar minimum, but even at 50 cents its still hard and still can pay very well, but at 20 cents, no need to lower it that much imo.
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Old 04-08-2015, 06:27 PM   #5
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25% takeout is high.

Let them try the 20 cents and see how it pans out, like Hawthorne. I'd imagine the pools would be higher. How much? I'm not sure of the top of my head.
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:41 PM   #6
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This is not good news for the horseplayers that play Woodbine. Just another sucker bet with this very high takeout of 25%.
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Old 04-08-2015, 08:35 PM   #7
Stillriledup
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This is not good news for the horseplayers that play Woodbine. Just another sucker bet with this very high takeout of 25%.
I agree. If SA, Golden Gate, Aqu and some other track have a very low takeout on the pick 5, why would anyone spend time betting and handicapping this pick 5 with a takeout that's 10 percent higher.
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Old 04-09-2015, 12:22 AM   #8
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People with low bankrolls will be able to play this bet like the big boys do for a buck. Yes the take out is high but some people that would like to play 5's cant because of higher wager amount at other tracks. I'm sure woodbine did their homework on this.
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Old 04-09-2015, 02:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olddaddy
People with low bankrolls will be able to play this bet like the big boys do for a buck. Yes the take out is high but some people that would like to play 5's cant because of higher wager amount at other tracks. I'm sure woodbine did their homework on this.

woodbine do their homework....that's a laugh, we've been waiting a couple of years for them to "roll out" the 20 cent supers on all the tracks we play.
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Old 04-09-2015, 05:30 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
I agree. If SA, Golden Gate, Aqu and some other track have a very low takeout on the pick 5, why would anyone spend time betting and handicapping this pick 5 with a takeout that's 10 percent higher.
because most of the betting public thinks takeout is Chinese food. Everyone involved should know but if you took a poll at the track asking the takeout of the pools being bet into I think you'd be lucky to find 1 person who could tell you.
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Old 04-09-2015, 08:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Gobbi
Woodbine Entertainment Group (WEG) today announced the addition of an new wager to its daily betting menu.

The $0.20 Thoroughbred Pick 5 will require horseplayers to select the winner of five consecutive races, starting from Race 2 through Race 6. The new wager, which will offer a 20-cent minimum, makes its debut on Saturday, April 11, opening day of the 2015 Thoroughbred meet.

The $0.20 Thoroughbred Pick 5 will have a 25% takeout.

http://www.woodbineentertainment.com...7-c12cc8aedb8d
Another step towards the wrong direction
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Old 04-09-2015, 12:29 PM   #12
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Trying out smaller minimum denominations in certain markets could be a good thing for the game, but not as a 'vehicle' for high takeout.

This feels like a sucker bet.

Hard to believe that this was an error, where someone with WEG made an innocent mistake, and accidentally used an obscenely high takeout rate.

We'll know, once we see whether or not they correct the takeout to the proper ~15% range.

Hopefully this wasn't a gimmick for a high-takeout-vehicle.
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Old 04-09-2015, 02:35 PM   #13
Jeff P
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I received the following email from a Canadian horseplayer earlier today:

Quote:
Jeff,

Woodbine has a longstanding policy of stealing from Canadian simulcast bettors unfortunate enough to bet triactors on races run at host tracks in the US.

The policy goes something like this:

Woodbine's triactor takeout is 27% and one of the worst anywhere.

But that's not heinous enough apparently.

When I as a Canadian simulcast bettor "win" a triactor on a race run at a US host track, and that track has a lower triactor takeout than Woodbine's 27%, my "winning" payoff is given a haircut.

Instead of receiving the actual payoff collected by bettors at the US host track, I as a Canadian receive a payoff that is adjusted downward artificially so as to make the payoff equal to what it would have been had the triactor takeout at the US host track been 27% like Woodbine.

What I want to know is this:

Now that Woodbine has a 25% takeout pick5, are they planning on turning 12%, 14%, and 15% takeout pick5's for races run at US host tracks into a Woodbine 25% takeout pick5?

JH in Toronto
I think I know the answer but I am going to contact track management at Woodbine before posting further.


-jp

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Last edited by Jeff P; 04-09-2015 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 04-09-2015, 04:00 PM   #14
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I asked them already about the P5 takeouts, whether they were going to remain at their current levels or be increased to 25%. Here's the response:

Thank you for inquiring about the new Pick 5 at Woodbine. We regret that you are unhappy about our takeout rate. If you are not satisfied with how the takeout rates are being implemented, please feel free to voice your criticism to the Ontario Racing Commissions office (416-213-0520) or the Canadian Pari-Mutuel Agency (1-800-268-8835).

In other words, no real response at all. So I've repeated the question and asked for a straight answer rather than the typical Woodbine obfuscation. Still waiting.

By the way, any time there's a high takeout, you know that the horsemen's fingerprints are all over it. The triactor takeouts would be lower if WO management had gotten its way, but the horsemen refused.
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Old 04-09-2015, 04:10 PM   #15
Stillriledup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
Trying out smaller minimum denominations in certain markets could be a good thing for the game, but not as a 'vehicle' for high takeout.

This feels like a sucker bet.

Hard to believe that this was an error, where someone with WEG made an innocent mistake, and accidentally used an obscenely high takeout rate.

We'll know, once we see whether or not they correct the takeout to the proper ~15% range.

Hopefully this wasn't a gimmick for a high-takeout-vehicle.
There are so many low takeout Pick 5s that many people might not even think to question the takeout on this bet, they may just bet it knowing that Pick 5s in 2015 are low takeout bets.

Its also a sucker bet because of the low minimum....if you get a couple bombs in the sequence you won't get as much as you would if this was a 50 cent pick 5 or even a 1 dollar pick 5.
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