Fire Victor Espinoza

[thespaah]

You guys pointing out run ups...
Here's the rub..
These tracks in SW Asia and Europe have 4-5 day meets. Which means wear and tear on the racing surfaces is limited.
Over here in North American there are 4-6 week meetings and some lasting a good part of the year.
With that kind of pounding and of course with the majority of the races being 5.5 or 6f, placing the gate in the same spot so that the distance is always correct would place a tremendous amount of stress on the area where the gate is placed.
This is especially true with turf racing. Consider all or most of the non sprint turf races at 8 or 8.5f....Look at the condition of the GS turf course. It looks terrible. And that despite the 140 ft wide racing surface and the various available rail configurations. Imagine the condition of the turf is the gate placement was the same for every race at a particular distance.

[burnsy]

There were several factors that had nothing to do with the ride. The "visiting" horses have to deal with the heat....several horses were hot by the time they got to the gate yesterday. Watch the UAE Derby Golden Barows was not happy. I like the different camera angles you can see that horse fighting the rider for over a quarter, he was hot entering the gate. Chrome looked ok but Prince Bishop and African Story looked like they were "at home". The American horses can't Lasix. The kick back was getting to some of the horses too. I think Chrome is out there to avoid that. Like any other sport, in horse racing maybe even more so, the home team has an advantage. Taking a short price on an American is a pretty bad bet. A lot of chalk won yesterday but the sprinter was our only short priced winner......we have the strongest dirt sprinters. Whose going to ride that horse better? Other than some guy with a "buzzer". And he still would of lost by daylight. Chrome is a nice horse, he matured faster than his generation did but his fans are out in left field, he's no Cigar or Curlin. I heard some of the "racing experts" calling him the best horse in the world... ..... The move to grass might be what he's best at anyway.

[NY BRED]

Get real, Chrome only won ONE race since May 17th which was held on the
Turf.

Parading this horse throughout the world to demonstrate how stupid these
owners are, and place the horse at risk benchmarks their interest in
raking in $$ rather than doing right for the horse.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Sherman resign as trainer, unless he is as stupid as these owners.

[upthecreek]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

Get real, Chrome only won ONE race since May 17th which was held on the
Turf.

Parading this horse throughout the world to demonstrate how stupid these
owners are, and place the horse at risk benchmarks their interest in
raking in $$ rather than doing right for the horse.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Sherman resign as trainer, unless he is as stupid as these owners.

I dont think Sherman is stupid, i think hes caught up in the moment CC is the really first big horse he has had, I think hell stay the course and look at all the $ he's making ,hard to give that up.

[Some_One]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

Get real, Chrome only won ONE race since May 17th which was held on the
Turf.

Parading this horse throughout the world to demonstrate how stupid these
owners are, and place the horse at risk benchmarks their interest in
raking in $$ rather than doing right for the horse.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Sherman resign as trainer, unless he is as stupid as these owners.

How is the horse at risk doing what it was born to do?

[ArlJim78]

When Chrome went on his streak last year he was racing and working out frequently, and was coming off a series of sprints. His winning move was an acceleration coming off the turn where he would put 5 lengths on the field then coast home.

Since he came back from the break he has not had that acceleration. All he has is his cruising speed but he's one paced. He doesn't have that winning burst.
I don't think this is Victors fault.
He's working out and racing less with little emphasis on speed and it shows when he races.
That's my two cents.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

When Chrome went on his streak last year he was racing and working out frequently, and was coming off a series of sprints. His winning move was an acceleration coming off the turn where he would put 5 lengths on the field then coast home.

Since he came back from the break he has not had that acceleration. All he has is his cruising speed but he's one paced. He doesn't have that winning burst.
I don't think this is Victors fault.
He's working out and racing less with little emphasis on speed and it shows when he races.
That's my two cents.

I've been saying that for a while. That horse needs to race. He is best when he runs up to the big races. People love excuses and the jock is the "classic" blame game. Your "two cents" is probably worth a million because the best that horse did was when he was campaigning.

[nearco]

Originally Posted by thespaah

You guys pointing out run ups...
Here's the rub..
These tracks in SW Asia and Europe have 4-5 day meets. Which means wear and tear on the racing surfaces is limited.
Over here in North American there are 4-6 week meetings and some lasting a good part of the year.
With that kind of pounding and of course with the majority of the races being 5.5 or 6f, placing the gate in the same spot so that the distance is always correct would place a tremendous amount of stress on the area where the gate is placed.
This is especially true with turf racing. Consider all or most of the non sprint turf races at 8 or 8.5f....Look at the condition of the GS turf course. It looks terrible. And that despite the 140 ft wide racing surface and the various available rail configurations. Imagine the condition of the turf is the gate placement was the same for every race at a particular distance.

The meets in HK are not 4-5 day meets.

[goatchaser]

Why do they have to be stupid owners? There running this horse after winning 2 legs of the Triple Crown. We use to call the people who retired their horse after a 3 YO campaign idiots for not racing in their 4's. Yes...The owner embarrassed himself on national TV. I do believe he learned his lesson. But even now it's hard to forget what he did and said. But just calling them Stupid is so wrong.
The horse has run creditable and lost to a better horse on this day in an environment completely different than what he's use to. Race before he lost to a horse that's probably the Fav to win the Breeeder's cup and has only lost once in his career and beat a field next time out by what? a dozen lengths under a hand ride?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by burnsy

...People love excuses and the jock is the "classic" blame game...

The problem for me is that if I'm supposed to dismiss being a third of the way into the track demanding everyone run up your inside as "the way he runs best" and that things are going according to plan...

... then just basically allowing the only outside horse inside the 3/8 to get first run on you while you are dicking around waiting waiting waiting, pretty much makes the whole riding to avoid outside pressure for the first eight furlongs a bit of a waste of time.

But, usually when you see these limp rides where the rider is worried more about other horses than his own you can trace the problem back to the people giving ridiculous instructions to the rider and making his job nearly impossible to do with confidence.

[SandyW]

Jockey instructions should be, you ride, I'll train !!

[lamboguy]

how about fire the owner's, they have no clue about horse racing are about to turn one of the best horse racing stories of all time into one of the worst by going to England, and the trainer is no better if he is going along with this.

[NY BRED]

[QUOTE=Some_One]How is the horse at risk doing what it was born to do


A: when you are all in for about 15k on breeding and expenses and then are incredibly
lucky to win the First two legs of the Triple Crown, and then lose
the Belmont, you have two choices. Retiring the horse as a stallion
would make sense, but, the owners obviously want this horse to
prove he is a champion, and I respect them for this choice.

That said, this horse endured a tough campaign, and shipping to Dubai
was insane. Quite simply, if the purse was for 250,000 do you
believe these owners would have shipped, even when the Saudis pay for the trip??

Now, they are seriously considering going to the Ascot, so the horse
can get trounced again?

Further, do trainers like Pletcher, Shug, Hollendorfer , Mott go to
Dubai with their First or even second stringers?

Horses ARE meant to run, but trainers are responsible for providing
professional advice and spotting their horses in the right spot.

I encourage any trainers or owners for their thought on this
specific discussion.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

...so the horse
can get trounced again?

...

I'm not the colt's biggest fan, but this seems like some pretty severe hyperbole considering his only really poor effort was at Philstonerx Casino off that little rest following the Belmont.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

I'm not the colt's biggest fan, but this seems like some pretty severe hyperbole considering his only really poor effort was at Philstonerx Casino off that little rest following the Belmont.

He hasn't won a meaningful race in 10 months.

He got beat in Pennsylvania because the owners brought him back in a horrible spot, then the same thing in the San Antonio. Now they will sit him close to three months and bring him back in an impossible spot again. It's clear they don't understand how to manage a horse. And it seems to me after the TC they stopped listening to the professionals.