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Old 02-26-2015, 04:05 PM   #31
OTM Al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodoyoulike
I recall Corporations used to publish their CREED which in essence was:

Customers, Employees and then Shareholders.....

Was that just all talk?
Yes. Nothing has changed. We just have more info available to us and now have no excuse for not knowing better.
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodoyoulike
I recall Corporations used to publish their CREED which in essence was:

Customers, Employees and then Shareholders.....

Was that just all talk?
Didn't know racing was about the customer. It sure doesn't see like it. Why get mad at CDI when all of racing is all about themselves?
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:51 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by duncan04
Didn't know racing was about the customer. It sure doesn't see like it. Why get mad at CDI when all of racing is all about themselves?
It's just that long-term successful businesses in general should keep that credo in mind.

I wasn't talking just about racing. I think CDI in their last take-out increase went from 16% to 19% for WPS and from 22% to almost 25% for exotics which is why I'm kinda "mad".

It's been almost a year so my %'s may be off.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Grits
CDI, unfortunately, neither makes a great product nor are they selling a great product.

They're a joke the other 363 days of the year. They nail the bettors seven ways to Sunday, not caring whether what they offer is acceptable or not. Its all about THEM/THEIR OWN PROFITS. Its not about thoroughbreds and its certainly not about bettors. .... At this point, most don't care what they do with their product.

I'm sorry, EOC.
Give an example of a track that CDI should try and copy as a business model. The fact of the matter is that CDI has a changing customer base. They can be like Radio Shack and hang on to the past or they can embrace the future and new endeavors and move forward.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:56 PM   #35
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CDI's profits were down 16% in 2014 for a number of reasons. They are in the annual review, and mainly are due to gaming and other extraneous factors.

For racing, Twinspires was up 3% for handle growth, which was below last year's 6.2%, and well below the double digit increases the past few years (for both them, and TVG).

As predicted by everyone, Derby revenues were up, due to increased takeout and on track revenues. This increase was harmed by decreased revenues for the rest of the meet. That was also predicted by most (increased prices/takeout on regular races, less handle was at a percentage worse than the takeout hike was). The best analogy I have seen is, jacking ticket prices for a World Series game seven will result in higher revenues, but higher ticket prices for the other 162 games can sting. Pretty basic what happened, and as I said, everyone predicted that.

In 2013, Churchill had gaming revenues outstrip horse racing revenues for the very first time; being a so called "gaming company". So, I am not sure they care much that their handle was down, and revenue was down from handle outside Derby week. For tracks that do care about handle, we can all hope they don't raise their takeout and get stung like the Churchill meet did.

Last edited by DeanT; 02-26-2015 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:58 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by duncan04
Didn't know racing was about the customer. It sure doesn't see like it. Why get mad at CDI when all of racing is all about themselves?
No business is just about the customer. Its about providing goods and/or service to a customer at a price the customer is willing to pay that will provide a profit to the business. If either part of the equation is not working the business model is broken.
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:26 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Give an example of a track that CDI should try and copy as a business model. The fact of the matter is that CDI has a changing customer base. They can be like Radio Shack and hang on to the past or they can embrace the future and new endeavors and move forward.
Kentucky Downs anyone?

Just before the 2013 meet, The Blood-horse ran an article titled Kentucky Downs Touts Low Takeout Rates:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...tes?source=rss

Quote:
A Kentucky Downs release said the 18.25% takeout on exacta wagers is the lowest in North America. The track will have a 14% takeout on its new Pick 5 bet, with a takeout rate of 16% on win, place and show wagering. There will be a 19% takeout on exotic wagers other than the exacta and Pick 5.

"Kentucky Downs offers some of the best betting value anywhere," Jeff Platt, president of the Horseplayers Association of North America, said in the Kentucky Downs release. "Exacta takeout is the lowest in North America. Combine that with a 19% takeout on other exotic bets and great average field size, and I am not surprised that the handle trend is up."

"HANA's recognition of our product offering means a great deal, because we want Kentucky Downs to be known as the 'horseplayers' racetrack,'" Kentucky Downs president Corey Johnsen said in the release. "Providing value to the betting public drives every decision we make. Our goal is to present quality racing run over a safe, consistent race course with an attractive takeout structure and wagering menu."
Then, oddly enough, after the meet was over, DRF ran an article titled Kentucky Downs handle, purses soar at five-day meet:
http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-dow...-five-day-meet

Quote:
Horseplayers showed their enthusiasm for the big fields and purses offered this fall at Kentucky Downs, with all-sources wagering surging past $12.8 million, an increase of nearly 70 percent over 2012. Handle on the 13-race Wednesday finale alone was $3,371,476, an all-time single-day record for the south-central Kentucky track and more than double what was handled on the corresponding date last year.

Kentucky Downs paid out more than $4.1 million in purses, or more than $820,000 per day and more than double what was paid out during a five-day meet in 2012. The purses were fueled in large part by the Instant Racing video machines that have been operational at the facility for two years. Field size for the 50-race meet was 9.96 horses per race, and takeout ranged from 14 to 19 percent on exotic wagers.

"We were proud to offer quality racing with a low takeout, and horseplayers responded with record handle,” track president Corey Johnsen said in a media release. “We had top-quality horses, trainers and jockeys from all over the country."



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Old 02-26-2015, 11:28 PM   #38
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"We were proud to offer quality racing with a low takeout, and horseplayers responded with record handle,” track president Corey Johnsen said in a media release. “We had top-quality horses, trainers and jockeys from all over the country."

Irrefutable.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:45 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Augenj
"We were proud to offer quality racing with a low takeout, and horseplayers responded with record handle,” track president Corey Johnsen said in a media release. “We had top-quality horses, trainers and jockeys from all over the country."

Irrefutable.
That's what happens when you have that short of a meet. Plus they have instant racing machines down there bringing in the money as well.
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Old 02-27-2015, 12:10 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Jeff P
Kentucky Downs anyone?

Just before the 2013 meet, The Blood-horse ran an article titled Kentucky Downs Touts Low Takeout Rates:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...tes?source=rss



Then, oddly enough, after the meet was over, DRF ran an article titled Kentucky Downs handle, purses soar at five-day meet:
http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-dow...-five-day-meet






-jp


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So the model should be this track? With $12.8 million in handle and using a blended takeout rate of 17% there was $2,170,000 taken out. With purses being $4,100,000 the racing was running at a huge deficit. I think this business model is already in play at just about every track in the US.

No wonder it is a 5 day meet. They couldn't fund the races for more days than that even with the video game revenue.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:36 AM   #41
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Churn, baby, churn!

It works like this. Vegas took a gamble and drastically reduced the takeout on slots a long time ago since the revenue from them was so low anyhow. People started winning more and poured their winnings back into the slots (churn). Slot revenue went up, table games went south, and slots (in all their various forms) were and are king.

Slots are an accelerated form of horse racing. The more the horse bettors get back, the more they bet (churn). The track takeout may be reduced on each bet but bettors make more and larger bets with their winnings. This increases the total revenue for the track since they get a piece of each bet. Successful newer wagers such as Pick 5's demonstrate how attractive lower takeout is to bettors. On the other hand, CDI increased takeout and revenue went down.

Slots are different than horse racing? Bettors are bettors are bettors. Start off with a one point reduction on all bets. It will invigorate horse racing and the bean counters will be happy too.

Churn, baby, churn!
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Old 02-27-2015, 07:18 AM   #42
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This meet is fantastic and did great getting a record 3.3 million on one day, yet Aqueduct is garbage and should be gotten rid of because they only brought in 5.2 million one day. Clearly takeout and field size means so much.

To be honest, I do like this meet and would like to see it in person at some point. But please be honest. It has a lot of low end races. The camera work and picture on the simulcast makes it almost unwatchable. This meet is not the example it is being made to be.
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Old 02-27-2015, 07:20 AM   #43
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