Cratos's thread about wind force

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

Importing into Excel was great in 1995. It is ok, but hardly ideal for a serious data analyzer.

lmao.

I agree, but I'd say I spend 30 minutes a week doing just that because I don't have a better alternative.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by cj

Importing into Excel was great in 1995. It is ok, but hardly ideal for a serious data analyzer.

Really? I try not to take things personally, but that statement is an insult to a lot more people than just me.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by raybo

Really? I try not to take things personally, but that statement is an insult to a lot more people than just me.

I think Excel is great (and ideal) for all kinds of analysis on horse racing data.

What I was implying (and I think CJ also) is that it's not much fun to cut and paste data from a site like Trakus so you can get it into Excel and then have to jump hoops to get it into a more usable format.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think Excel is great (and ideal) for all kinds of analysis on horse racing data.

What I was implying (and I think CJ also) is that it's not much fun to cut and paste data from a site like Trakus so you can get it into Excel and then have to jump hoops to get it into a more usable format.

Have you ever used Excel with Trakus data and if so, what "hoops" did either Excel or the Trakus data forced you to jump through during your statistical analysis?

[cj]

I was not trying to knock people that use Excel, but there are way better alternatives. Sports analytics are huge these days, with good reason. Does anyone think teams are copying and pasting box scores into Excel?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Cratos

Have you ever used Excel with Trakus data and if so, what "hoops" did either Excel or the Trakus data forced you to jump through during your statistical analysis?

I tried cutting and pasting data into a spreadsheet a few times. To a large degree it was like pasting a photo if it into the sheet. Some of the cell data was available the way I wanted and some was not. I didn't want to spend hours figuring it out when the best case scenario was that I'd have to take 8-10 snapshots like that for each track each day and have a workable method for rearranging it.

I've had better experiences with sites like Basketball Reference where data is provided in various ways that allow you to import player and team stats into Excel in an easy way and a much easier to use format.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2015.html

You should be able to push a button and get a comma delimited file (or something similar) or an automated import.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I tried cutting and pasting data into a spreadsheet a few times. To a large degree it was like pasting a photo if it into the sheet. Some of the cell data was available the way I wanted and some was not. I didn't want to spend hours figuring it out when the best case scenario was that I'd have to take 8-10 snapshots like that for each track each day and have a workable method for rearranging it.

I've had better experiences with sites like Basketball Reference where data is provided in various ways that allow you to import player and team stats into Excel in an easy way and a much easier to use format.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2015.html

You should be able to push a button and get a comma delimited file (or something similar) or an automated import.

Exactly...

Plus, doesn't Trakus provide data on several different pages per race? Not like you can get it all at once.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by cj

I was not trying to knock people that use Excel, but there are way better alternatives. Sports analytics are huge these days, with good reason. Does anyone think teams are copying and pasting box scores into Excel?

Yes. Analytics are huge.
But teams are employing people or companies to code player activity - second by second.
My grandson is working part-time for a company that breaks down basketball, hockey, and other sports. He gets good bread for doing it.
After that coding is done it is put into a spread sheet such as Excel.
Where is that sort of second by second analysis being done in horse racing?

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I tried cutting and pasting data into a spreadsheet a few times. To a large degree it was like pasting a photo if it into the sheet. Some of the cell data was available the way I wanted and some was not. I didn't want to spend hours figuring it out when the best case scenario was that I'd have to take 8-10 snapshots like that for each track each day and have a workable method for rearranging it.

I've had better experiences with sites like Basketball Reference where data is provided in various ways that allow you to import player and team stats into Excel in an easy way and a much easier to use format.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2015.html

You should be able to push a button and get a comma delimited file (or something similar) or an automated import.

Trakus data that I copy and paste is Excel formatted.

After pasting the data, it is as if I hand entered the data cell by cell.

Furthermore I write or import formulas to calculate and analyze the Trakus data very easily.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by cj

Exactly...

Plus, doesn't Trakus provide data on several different pages per race? Not like you can get it all at once.

What are you talking about? Trakus provides data in frames which are called "segments".

What is not discussed is that Trakus gives real data (horse and race) free while Equibase/DRF gives real race data with virtual horse data and Equibase/DRF PDFs although are free, they are locked.

[Tom]

How do you paste it formatted?
You have words like head and margins like 1/2....how you format during a paste?

[raybo]

Originally Posted by cj

Exactly...

Plus, doesn't Trakus provide data on several different pages per race? Not like you can get it all at once.

So, if you wouldn't use Excel, what exactly would you use for Trakus data? You certainly couldn't use Access, or any other database program.

"Data analysis" is not the same as data storage, or data mining. If getting data into Excel is your problem, then you would have the same problem with databases.

Regarding "data analysis", Excel is a very good platform for analyzing data, used by scientists, and data analysts/researchers, all over the world. It is very flexible, very manipulative, without having to go through all the hoops of querying, table joins, data typing, and all the other stuff required of database use. And, with the addition of a little VBA you can do things that traditional programming languages do. Data storage can be a problem with Excel, compared to databases, but then if that is what you want, you can do that and then use Excel for the actual data analysis portion. I would hate to have to spend years putting a database together, before I could ever do any actual data analysis. With Excel, once the data is in it, you can begin data analysis immediately, and you don't have to be a PHD to do it either.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think Excel is great (and ideal) for all kinds of analysis on horse racing data.

What I was implying (and I think CJ also) is that it's not much fun to cut and paste data from a site like Trakus so you can get it into Excel and then have to jump hoops to get it into a more usable format.

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I tried cutting and pasting data into a spreadsheet a few times. To a large degree it was like pasting a photo if it into the sheet. Some of the cell data was available the way I wanted and some was not. I didn't want to spend hours figuring it out when the best case scenario was that I'd have to take 8-10 snapshots like that for each track each day and have a workable method for rearranging it.

I've had better experiences with sites like Basketball Reference where data is provided in various ways that allow you to import player and team stats into Excel in an easy way and a much easier to use format.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2015.html

You should be able to push a button and get a comma delimited file (or something similar) or an automated import.

This is also my experience with copying the Trakus data and pasting it to Excel. I've attempted it with my two different versions of Excel with the same results. It's different from importing data. And, the Trakus data is presented on different screens which multiplies one's effort.

Classhandicapper, I found a work around of referencing the cells and then making the cells values. The data is now in Excel formats and usable (for use in a database) but, I don't see me doing this for a number of races.

Cratos which version of Excel are you using which allows a simple copy and paste?

[Tom]

So, if you wouldn't use Excel, what exactly would you use for Trakus data? You certainly couldn't use Access, or any other database program.

"Data analysis" is not the same as data storage, or data mining. If getting data into Excel is your problem, then you would have the same problem with databases.

For me, it is the deal breaker for using Trakus data. It is not worth the trouble, especially when few tracks use it. Why go to all that trouble is two thirds of the horses do not show running lines from a Trakus track?

What is useful is watching the overhead replays, seeing the distances run (less the run up, of course), and looking for trips to capitalize on in a future race, ie, horse ran 96 feet further than the winner and was only beaten three lengths.

This is why Trakus is more potential than accomplishment.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

This is also my experience with copying the Trakus data and pasting it to Excel. I've attempted it with my two different versions of Excel with the same results. It's different from importing data. And, the Trakus data is presented on different screens which multiplies one's effort.

Classhandicapper, I found a work around of referencing the cells and then making the cells values. The data is now in Excel formats and usable (for use in a database) but, I don't see me doing this for a number of races.

Cratos which version of Excel are you using which allows a simple copy and paste?

MS Excel 2010 that came as part of MS Office

However I don't think that makes a difference because Trakus is pre-Excel formatted.