Read Brohamer's Modern Pace Handicapping, confused about one element for beaten Ls

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by Hoofless_Wonder

Interesting read. That book, the 1941 print edition, is available on Amazon for a cool $1000.

I think we're looking at this differently. I would agree that professional gamblers would have a much higher vested interest in figures, and the race times used for calculating them.

But I would argue that trainers, making wagers on the stock they train, could do all right by using other factors, most importantly the intent of the connections (at least in cheaper races). And with horses racing more often in the good old days, it was also probably easier to know the class hierarchy at the local track as well.

Oh, and while I agree it would be nice to have accurate times and beaten lengths in the PPs, wouldn't that cut into your business?

Research Phil Bull, a mathematician and one of the founders of Timeform. His work dates back to the 1930s.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Cratos

Research Phil Bull, a mathematician and one of the founders of Timeform. His work dates back to the 1930s.

The book I have is also from the 1930s.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Hoofless_Wonder

Oh, and while I agree it would be nice to have accurate times and beaten lengths in the PPs, wouldn't that cut into your business?

No, people will still want figures and PPs. Accurate times for all horses at all calls would just make figures better.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by fmolf

If you are a true believer in the herd mentality and the importance of how a race is run in relation to the herd ....then the old time trainers are right to say"time only matters in jail"

I think everyone is right.

There will be variations in time among the same horses (sometimes significant) depending on how the race is run, the track/surface the race is contested over and how it's playing etc... but not knowing the times leaves you with no objective measurement of ability other than who beat who.....which in some instances tells you almost nothing.

IMO, the best approach is to look at the way the race developed, look at the times, and try to make sense of what happened.