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12-28-2014, 01:50 PM
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#46
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
The ADW issue and the Las Vegas issue are two separate things, Mike. The tracks are right when they go after the ADWs for their fair share...because the ADWs are taking money out of the track's pocket. If I choose to wager with an ADW instead of heading out to the track...then the track is LOSING MONEY. But Las Vegas is catering to a group of bettors who wouldn't otherwise bet a NICKEL if racing ceased to exist there. There in no "negative" side to selling the track signal to Nevada...because the track only GAINS by doing so. If you don't sell the signal there, then you just lose the customers...plain and simple. Withholding your signal will not entice anyone in Las Vegas to wager on your races in any other way.
Raise your price slightly if you feel that you are undercharging...but don't get ridiculous and end up shooting yourself in the foot.
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Why do you make the above statement? Are you saying most racebook players stumble in from playing table games or slots? How do you know this? I have no idea. It's an important point if true.
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12-28-2014, 01:52 PM
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#47
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,915
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Quote:
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But Las Vegas is catering to a group of bettors who wouldn't otherwise bet a NICKEL if racing ceased to exist there.
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I would have to disagree with that. In fact, I would say it is just the opposite: maybe 85-90% of racebook players are everyday horse players. Years ago, many actually moved to Las Vegas just (or mostly) to bet horses.
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12-28-2014, 01:56 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,566
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Why do you make the above statement? Are you saying most racebook players stumble in from playing table games or slots? How do you know this? I have no idea. It's an important point if true.
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The racebook patron has only one way to bet the horses...and that's through the racebook. If there is no race signal...then the racebook patron doesn't bet, PERIOD. By withholding the signal...you are not trying to entice the racebook patron to come to your track and bet live, so you can make the lion's share of the profit. You are just leaving him out in the cold...and you are costing yourself money in the process.
6% is a lot better than 0%.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-28-2014, 01:57 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,566
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
I would have to disagree with that. In fact, I would say it is just the opposite: maybe 85-90% of racebook players are everyday horse players. Years ago, many actually moved to Las Vegas just (or mostly) to bet horses.
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That's not what I meant, Dave. Read my post after that.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-28-2014, 02:02 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,787
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
6% is a lot better than 0%.
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But 10% is a lot better than 6%. And if the 0% is just the short-term pain for the long-term 10%, it's a no-brainer.
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12-28-2014, 02:04 PM
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#51
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
The racebook patron has only one way to bet the horses...and that's through the racebook. If there is no race signal...then the racebook patron doesn't bet, PERIOD. By withholding the signal...you are not trying to entice the racebook patron to come to your track and bet live, so you can make the lion's share of the profit. You are just leaving him out in the cold...and you are costing yourself money in the process.
6% is a lot better than 0%.
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Without ADWs, I can't argue your point. The casinos have a monopoly on racing action. That should bother you.
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12-28-2014, 02:08 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,626
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This is one of those situations in which it seems (to a casual observer) that some may know less than it seems about the situation they (attempt to) describe. How many actually bet in Las Vegas? How many actually bet regularly in Las Vegas? I know Dave understands what is going on, but some comments seem more based on conjecture than first-hand knowledge.
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12-28-2014, 02:08 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,566
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RXB
But 10% is a lot better than 6%. And if the 0% is just the short-term pain for the long-term 10%, it's a no-brainer.
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And if you can't get the 10%...what do you do then? Stick to your demands and lose a "sure thing"? This is free money that the tracks are getting from those Nevada racebooks. The only reason that the casinos continue to offer racing there is because they like the idea of a one-stop gambling spot. The game could go away tomorrow in Vegas...and no one would miss it.
The NYRA is overplaying its hand there...if you ask me.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-28-2014, 02:10 PM
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#54
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by traynor
This is one of those situations in which it seems (to a casual observer) that some may know less than it seems about the situation they (attempt to) describe. How many actually bet in Las Vegas? How many actually bet regularly in Las Vegas? I know Dave understands what is going on, but some comments seem more based on conjecture than first-hand knowledge.
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I look forward to your insights on the matter?
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12-28-2014, 02:11 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,566
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Without ADWs, I can't argue your point. The casinos have a monopoly on racing action. That should bother you.
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It should bother RACING...not me. If the signal goes out in Nevada...then it's going to be the NYRA who is going to lose money -- not me.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-28-2014, 02:12 PM
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#56
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
And if you can't get the 10%...what do you do then? Stick to your demands and lose a "sure thing"? This is free money that the tracks are getting from those Nevada racebooks. The only reason that the casinos continue to offer racing there is because they like the idea of a one-stop gambling spot. The game could go away tomorrow in Vegas...and no one would miss it.
The NYRA is overplaying its hand there...if you ask me.
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The casinos are in an enviable position b/c of a monopoly granted by the state (this assumes Dave S's estimates on handle generated from locals is correct), not b/c of anything else.
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12-28-2014, 02:13 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,566
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by traynor
This is one of those situations in which it seems (to a casual observer) that some may know less than it seems about the situation they (attempt to) describe. How many actually bet in Las Vegas? How many actually bet regularly in Las Vegas? I know Dave understands what is going on, but some comments seem more based on conjecture than first-hand knowledge.
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The typical, crystal-clear, Traynor posting. He says exactly what's on his mind.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 12-28-2014 at 02:26 PM.
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12-28-2014, 02:18 PM
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#58
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
It should bother RACING...not me. If the signal goes out in Nevada...then it's going to be the NYRA who is going to lose money -- not me.
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I support free markets. The fact that ADWs aren't legal in NV is outrageous. As you've outlined, it gives too much negotiating power to the casinos. NYRA and CD should sue the state (along with several others) based on the Commerce Clause.
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12-28-2014, 02:20 PM
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#59
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
The typical, crystal-clear, Trainor posting. He says exactly what's on his mind.
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Cleared everything up for me, too.
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12-28-2014, 02:34 PM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,566
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
I support free markets. The fact that ADWs aren't legal in NV is outrageous. As you've outlined, it gives too much negotiating power to the casinos. NYRA and CD should sue the state (along with several others) based on the Commerce Clause.
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Nevada is a state like no other. Around the time that John Kennedy was shot...the dealers in Nevada were fighting a battle in the courts with the IRS over some tax issue concerning the dealers' tips. The headline on the front page of the Las Vegas Sun the day after the Kennedy shooting read, in large letters:
"DEALERS WIN LANDMARK CASE AGAINST THE IRS"...while in a remote corner of the page, in much smaller print, it stated... "John Kennedy shot...Lyndon Johnson new prez."
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 12-28-2014 at 02:42 PM.
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