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12-27-2014, 01:59 PM
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#16
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
I totally understand what they are trying to do, and I don't disagree the product was priced too low. Of course, racing is the ones that priced it at 3% to begin with so they get a lot of the blame.
It just seems an odd time to try to boost prices given that handle is in the tank. Vegas also isn't really the smartest target, they don't need racing.
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Are ADWs legal in Nevada?
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12-27-2014, 02:13 PM
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#17
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Are ADWs legal in Nevada?
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No idea.
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12-27-2014, 02:26 PM
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#18
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,819
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Lots of tracks out there.
No one needs to be held hostage any one of them.
Just bet another.
Stupid decisions made years ago are not my problem.
Greed today isn't either.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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12-27-2014, 02:30 PM
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#19
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
Lots of tracks out there.
No one needs to be held hostage any one of them.
Just bet another.
Stupid decisions made years ago are not my problem.
Greed today isn't either.
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Why is it greed? They want a decent return on their employed capital. I say the casinos are greedy - they should pay more for the signal. You, the player, should not be impacted by the casinos' higher costs. For the past 25 years, the signal buyers have earned the fattest part of the margin in the value chain. It doesn't make sense.
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12-27-2014, 02:33 PM
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#20
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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There was approximately $10.9 billion wagered on racing in the US in 2013. For the twelve months ended 10/31/14, $53.1 mm was wagered on horse racing in Nevada and $52.8 mm was wagered on basketball.
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12-27-2014, 03:15 PM
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#21
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,819
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Quote:
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For the past 25 years, the signal buyers have earned the fattest part of the margin in the value chain. It doesn't make sense.
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And I don't really care.
I am the customer - I want to bet races.
Anyone who prevents me from doing that is greedy in my opinion.
And with all the tracks out there, I don't have to care.
When I go out to dinner, I don't care what problems the dishwashers have - I want a good steak and nothing more.
For decades, I have been held hostage on betting this race or that race of this track or that track - I no longer care about ANYONE's problems. The tracks were stupid - tough nuggies. I will never suffer the internal problems of stupid race tracks - there will always be someone else to give me a track to play. THEY are who I am loyal to, for as long they continue to do it. Those that can't get a good deal can close up. Buh bye.
Whatever deals they iron out, the players will get nothing out of them.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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12-27-2014, 03:19 PM
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#22
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
And I don't really care.
I am the customer - I want to bet races.
Anyone who prevents me from doing that is greedy in my opinion.
And with all the tracks out there, I don't have to care.
When I go out to dinner, I don't care what problems the dishwashers have - I want a good steak and nothing more.
For decades, I have been held hostage on betting this race or that race of this track or that track - I no longer care about ANYONE's problems. The tracks were stupid - tough nuggies. I will never suffer the internal problems of stupid race tracks - there will always be someone else to give me a track to play. THEY are who I am loyal to, for as long they continue to do it. Those that can't get a good deal can close up. Buh bye.
Whatever deals they iron out, the players will get nothing out of them.
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Where do you find all these perfectly run businesses outside of racing? I'm serious - you're always referencing businesses outside of racing, and you always intimate that you get exactly what you want. Maybe you could make a Tom's Preferred List - start with airlines, hotels and restaurants.
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12-27-2014, 04:54 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 677
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While I agree anyone that sells a product should attempt to get as much as possible, I think NYRA may be pushing a little too hard. If you look at the trend at casinos over the last 20 years, they have been backing off of pari-mutuel wagering. In AC only one casino offers it. It is a loser for casinos relative to other games, they can offer. Many keep it to just have a nice portfolio of options. Doubling the fee effectively makes it a breakeven product at best. I think that the trend will continue and you will see more casinos just drop the product all together.
It is fine to squeeze your customers, but if you go too far you may find that you lose it all, and that is the risk that NYRA is taking.
Last edited by alydar; 12-27-2014 at 04:56 PM.
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12-27-2014, 05:16 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 677
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I would be curious to see what the December handle numbers are compared to 2013. It seems to be becoming clear that NYRA is getting very aggressive in their pricing strategy. It will be interesting to see how it is going so far, and how it will go in the coming months. They may be overplaying their hand. Time will tell.
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12-27-2014, 09:09 PM
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#25
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Why is it greed? They want a decent return on their employed capital. I say the casinos are greedy - they should pay more for the signal. You, the player, should not be impacted by the casinos' higher costs. For the past 25 years, the signal buyers have earned the fattest part of the margin in the value chain. It doesn't make sense.
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Its a hard argument to make that they're NOT greedy asking the fee to be doubled overnight.
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12-27-2014, 09:39 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,548
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Why is it greed? They want a decent return on their employed capital. I say the casinos are greedy - they should pay more for the signal. You, the player, should not be impacted by the casinos' higher costs. For the past 25 years, the signal buyers have earned the fattest part of the margin in the value chain. It doesn't make sense.
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If the Nevada casinos stop offering the NYRA's races, who loses out...the casinos, or the NYRA? Isn't 6% better than 0%? Whose idea was it to undersell the signal in the first place?
In business, everything else is secondary to learning how to properly price the products or services that you are selling. If you don't know how to price your products, then you won't remain in business for long...and the argument can be made that you didn't belong in business to begin with.
A true businessman knows the intrinsic value of his product in the marketplace, otherwise he doesn't deserve the name.
__________________
Live to play another day.
Last edited by thaskalos; 12-27-2014 at 09:40 PM.
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12-27-2014, 10:03 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,568
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
If the Nevada casinos stop offering the NYRA's races, who loses out...the casinos, or the NYRA? Isn't 6% better than 0%? Whose idea was it to undersell the signal in the first place?
In business, everything else is secondary to learning how to properly price the products or services that you are selling. If you don't know how to price your products, then you won't remain in business for long...and the argument can be made that you didn't belong in business to begin with.
A true businessman knows the intrinsic value of his product in the marketplace, otherwise he doesn't deserve the name.
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Thask, I hate to point this out but it's reaching the point where
Nevada casinos could care less about race signals altogether.
5-10 years ago I wouldn't have said that, and certainly not just
over 20 years ago when pari-mutuel wagering came to Nevada.
Sports wagering is a much more valuable marketing tool.
They don't make all that much money from it, but it attracts
the under-30s like a magnet. Their books wouldn't skip a
beat if they stopped taking horse wagers tomorrow.
It pains me to say that, too. 
__________________
Want to know what's wrong with this country?
Here it is, in a nutshell: Millions of people are
pinning their hopes on a man who has every
chance of returning to the WH, assuming that
he can manage to stay out of prison. Think about it.
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12-27-2014, 10:07 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,568
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Are ADWs legal in Nevada?
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Nope
__________________
Want to know what's wrong with this country?
Here it is, in a nutshell: Millions of people are
pinning their hopes on a man who has every
chance of returning to the WH, assuming that
he can manage to stay out of prison. Think about it.
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12-27-2014, 10:20 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,548
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I agree.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by horses4courses
Thask, I hate to point this out but it's reaching the point where
Nevada casinos could care less about race signals altogether.
5-10 years ago I wouldn't have said that, and certainly not just
over 20 years ago when pari-mutuel wagering came to Nevada.
Sports wagering is a much more valuable marketing tool.
They don't make all that much money from it, but it attracts
the under-30s like a magnet. Their books wouldn't skip a
beat if they stopped taking horse wagers tomorrow.
It pains me to say that, too. |
It has long been reported that racing lags far behind the other gambling games in Vegas, as far as betting interest is concerned...and that's what makes the timing of this increase so questionable. The NYRA isn't exactly bargaining from a position of strength in this case.
__________________
Live to play another day.
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12-27-2014, 10:30 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,568
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
It has long been reported that racing lags far behind the other gambling games in Vegas, as far as betting interest is concerned...and that's what makes the timing of this increase so questionable. The NYRA isn't exactly bargaining from a position of strength in this case.
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No, they are not.
As long as Nevada keeps taking horse wagers -
and they will for the foreseeable future,
they will definitely want the NYRA product.
They will work out a deal before too long.
Could there come a day when the plug
is pulled? It's more likely than it used to be.
On a side note, glad to see that Patty Jones
still heads the Nevada Pari-Mutuel Assoc.
Very nice woman who has been in plenty
of battles with the tracks over the years.
__________________
Want to know what's wrong with this country?
Here it is, in a nutshell: Millions of people are
pinning their hopes on a man who has every
chance of returning to the WH, assuming that
he can manage to stay out of prison. Think about it.
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