How low could takeout actually go while still having enough left to run the show?

[thaskalos]

Advertisers are not attracted to sinking ships.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I agree with you but the spectators don't have an easy opportunity to make some $$ as in TB racing.

Making money in horse racing is EASY????

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by RXB

Making money in horse racing is EASY????

That depends on whom you ask.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

That depends on whom you ask.

Most seem to think they are winners.

I was talking casually to another horseplayer yesterday about how one of the challenges with writing a horseplaying book, involves the fact that revealing any significant insight would actually hurt, rather than help the game.

Rather than discuss the paradox, he kind of made a defensive response that horseplaying isn't rocket science and referenced how successful he is...

back on topic
Horse racing very likely does not optimize takeout in the most efficient ways.
To be fair, things like big-days and the increased rebates that larger players already do receive should be factored into some of work that attempts to ask whether or not takeout is efficient.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Most seem to think they are winners.

I was talking casually to another horseplayer yesterday about how one of the challenges with writing a horseplaying book, involves the fact that revealing any significant insight would actually hurt, rather than help the game.

Rather than discuss the paradox, he kind of made a defensive response that horseplaying isn't rocket science and referenced how successful he is...

back on topic
Horse racing very likely does not optimize takeout in the most efficient ways.
To be fair, things like big-days and the increased rebates that larger players already do receive should be factored into some of work that attempts to ask whether or not takeout is efficient.

I won't write my book until i'm retired from betting, too many things i know that i've never heard anyone else say, so i know they're proprietary, but i won't share them until i'm no longer betting.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by RXB

Making money in horse racing is EASY????

No, I meant the availability of the opportunity is easy (or readily available)..

[Some_One]

Originally Posted by olddaddy

I dont believe casinos are legal in Hong Kong but are legal in Macau.

And Macau has, on average, 10X the minimum bet at their casinos vs Las Vegas. Vegas learned long ago it won't survive on gambling alone and now non-gaming revenues are higher then gaming revenues.

[cj]

If it cost too much to put on the show, find ways to make the show cheaper. Certainly some excessive costs in racing.

[Stillriledup]

What it really comes down to is that there are too many tracks and not enough customers. With simulcasting now, its like you have twenty 7-11s within a 3 block cyber space radius, before simo each track was its own island, if you wanted to bet there, you had to physically go there. Now, with simo there's no need to physically go to the track to get down.

As far as lowering the cost of the show, trainers and jocks are all replaceable, not one of them would hurt the game financially if they retired tomorrow, so by supply and demand, they seem to be making more money than 'replaceable' people should be making and some of that money could go back into the game, owners wouldnt have to share their purses with trainers and jocks and those skilled laborers would just work for what the market would bear.

Jocks should be able to undercut other jocks in fees, no standard fee, no need for it, if a jock is riding a grade 1 horse in a 5 million dollar race, another jock can call those connections and say he or she will ride for 1 or 2 percent less....and they can bargain and let the market set the price with the savings going to the owners. More money for owners means more owners can survive in the game and that's good for overall health. A jock making a million or 2 salary for the year doesnt help the game at all, its just money coming out of the pockets of owners.

[Ray2000]

How low could takeout actually go while still having enough left to run the show?

Who's going to surrender their cut first.??..

Typical take-out distribution for most tracks.

taken from
http://www.toconline.com/wp/wp-conte...The-Bet-Go.pdf

[davew]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

As far as lowering the cost of the show, trainers and jocks are all replaceable, not one of them would hurt the game financially if they retired tomorrow, so by supply and demand, they seem to be making more money than 'replaceable' people should be making and some of that money could go back into the game, owners wouldnt have to share their purses with trainers and jocks and those skilled laborers would just work for what the market would bear.

Good idea, more of them should be willing to do it for free, for the love of the game.

There are 3 'groups' involved with racing.
1- the facility operators and betting facilitators
2- the horse owners and managers
3- the betting public

If an equitable method was found, to lower input from 3rd and increase from first couple, bettors would be happier. Even places that have racinos, the money generates supplements the first two, and does not lower betting public input.

ideas for cutting proportion of input from 3- bettors

1- more guaranteed betting pools, staggering racing days/hours so that majority of races do not occur Sat/Sun afternoons, other facility usage to lower overhead needed to be covered by racing

2- more stakes races where entry fees pay higher portion of purse, stable 'sponsorship' like racecars



maybe there are enough past races on tape, a live show is no longer need - just random videos with fabricated past performances running every 5 minutes 24/7.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by davew

Good idea, more of them should be willing to do it for free, for the love of the game.

There are 3 'groups' involved with racing.
1- the facility operators and betting facilitators
2- the horse owners and managers
3- the betting public

If an equitable method was found, to lower input from 3rd and increase from first couple, bettors would be happier. Even places that have racinos, the money generates supplements the first two, and does not lower betting public input.

ideas for cutting proportion of input from 3- bettors

1- more guaranteed betting pools, staggering racing days/hours so that majority of races do not occur Sat/Sun afternoons, other facility usage to lower overhead needed to be covered by racing

2- more stakes races where entry fees pay higher portion of purse, stable 'sponsorship' like racecars



maybe there are enough past races on tape, a live show is no longer need - just random videos with fabricated past performances running every 5 minutes 24/7.

Where did i say they should work for free? I just said they should get paid what the market will bear, supply and demand, if someone is willing to do the job for less, the owner should be able to employ that person to save money.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

They tell us that rebaters make up 20% of the pool in some places and get 10% rebates. Based on this you could cut takeout by 2% for everyone at no cost if you removed the rebates

[alydar]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR

They tell us that rebaters make up 20% of the pool in some places and get 10% rebates. Based on this you could cut takeout by 2% for everyone at no cost if you removed the rebates

And how would removing rebates increase handle?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Most seem to think they are winners.

I was talking casually to another horseplayer yesterday about how one of the challenges with writing a horseplaying book, involves the fact that revealing any significant insight would actually hurt, rather than help the game.

Rather than discuss the paradox, he kind of made a defensive response that horseplaying isn't rocket science and referenced how successful he is...

back on topic
Horse racing very likely does not optimize takeout in the most efficient ways.
To be fair, things like big-days and the increased rebates that larger players already do receive should be factored into some of work that attempts to ask whether or not takeout is efficient.

I have had arguments with expert poker players who studied the game for years about the stock market and sports betting. Even people who know better are convinced they can beat things they really can't.

Barnum, Arthur Miller, and The Honeymooners were right. Even smart people will always convince themselves that they can make easy money.