How low could takeout actually go while still having enough left to run the show?

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by alydar

Face it, racing is a niche sport and that will not likely change. I would love to see it, but I do not believe that it will

Why racing is not a niche sport in Japan?

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

Why racing has to rely on take out in order to make a profit?

What really makes it so different from other sporting events that can survive on their own?

How other countries manage to have bookmakers and betting exchanges in top of on track betting?

There is certainly limited interest in watching racing as a pure sport so I doubt that much could be done on that front.

It is different in that it is a participation sport. Racing exists only as a vehicle for betting.

Bookmakers, for sure, and betting exchanges, I believe, compensate the track and help pay for the show.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

The fact that all the race tracks in the world (with some very few exceptions) are charging a hefty amount of take-out, does not mean that side betting vehicles, like bookmakers and exchanges are not available as alternatives...

This is the whole point..

Make bookmakers and exchanges legal and let Darwinism free to select the 'fittest' tracks that will thrive in the new era of horse betting, something than of course means, way less racing and way better sporting quality.. Instead, racing resembles an anarchic landscape, with many small operations who try to squeeze as much of the betting dollar in a disastrous alliance with the casino industry without any kind of a long term vision for the evolution of the game.

One thing you have to understand is that the money to fund the sport has to come from somewhere.

I have no real objection to letting a thousand flowers bloom in terms of wagering. But if you create a situation where all the wagering dollars migrate to pools that do not direct a stream of money to the racetracks who are creating the content, then you are going to end up with racetracks going out of business. We are seeing this right now with newspapers, and it is a downstream threat to the recording industry and even (more distantly) television.

One way or the other, unless you can get live bodies in the seats in sufficient numbers and paying sufficient prices, there has to be a significant takeout and it has to hit at least most of the bettors. A certain number of players can engage in arbitrage, but if enough bettors don't pay the takeout, the economic model will collapse.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

Why racing is not a niche sport in Japan?

One reason might be that they have different tastes.

Seriously, beach volleyball isn't a big sport in Japan. Neither is basketball. Neither is ice hockey or American football. Neither is tennis.

But baseball is huge over there. And sumo wrestling is big. And, of course, horse racing is big.

If you can convince the American public to love horse racing the way they did in the 1930's, a lot of things could happen. But the odds of that are close to zero-- or, to put it another way, nobody's ever proven that there's some marketing formula that can override the changing tastes of the public.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

One reason might be that they have different tastes.

Seriously, beach volleyball isn't a big sport in Japan. Neither is basketball. Neither is ice hockey or American football. Neither is tennis.

But baseball is huge over there. And sumo wrestling is big. And, of course, horse racing is big.

If you can convince the American public to love horse racing the way they did in the 1930's, a lot of things could happen. But the odds of that are close to zero-- or, to put it another way, nobody's ever proven that there's some marketing formula that can override the changing tastes of the public.

Excuses Excuses and Excuses ...

We can certainly convince the betting public to return to horses as the primary betting activity, assuming we do not insult its intelligence when it comes to things like take out, integrity, racing quality etc... Horse racing is a new sport to Japan but it was managed properly and this is why it thrives... Here is US, it used to be part of our culture and today has become a 'niche' sport as other have already said... The potential is there, what is missing is vision and long term planning..

[olddaddy]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

Why racing is not a niche sport in Japan?

Because casinos are illegal in Japan?

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by olddaddy

Because casinos are illegal in Japan?

How about Hong Kong then?

Let's not look for excuses, it is a matter of management and long term views and planning!

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by olddaddy

Because casinos are illegal in Japan?

I guess you don't know how long Pachinko Machines have been operating in Japan?

[olddaddy]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

I guess you don't know how long Pachinko Machines have been operating in Japan?

I know about them but is that the same a casino with a variety of gambling games. I look at Pachinko as video poker, if video poker was around forever would that quench the thirst for gambling as a casino does?

[olddaddy]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

How about Hong Kong then?

Let's not look for excuses, it is a matter of management and long term views and planning!

I dont believe casinos are legal in Hong Kong but are legal in Macau.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by olddaddy

I dont believe casinos are legal in Hong Kong but are legal in Macau.

Yeah, I've seen horse racing in Hong Kong and loved it. But you really have a huge population in a small area with basically one form of legal gambling. And they only race 2 days a week, 13 races a day. And only one night every 2 weeks at the convenient downtown track.

Put that all together with the Chinese culture (which encourages people to get their gamble on) and it's basically a formula for maximizing the betting action. It's not like anywhere else in the world.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

Why racing has to rely on take out in order to make a profit?

What really makes it so different from other sporting events that can survive on their own?

How other countries manage to have bookmakers and betting exchanges in top of on track betting?

I've also wondered about these points.

I don't follow these sports but what about car racing or golf?

The crowds attending on TV seem huge. The drivers and golfers seem to make a lot of money. The tracks and golf courses seem to make money. I don't think there is public gambling involved.

How do they prosper? Is it just entertainment $$?

[elhelmete]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I've also wondered about these points.

I don't follow these sports but what about car racing or golf?

The crowds attending on TV seem huge. The drivers and golfers seem to make a lot of money. The tracks and golf courses seem to make money. I don't think there is public gambling involved.

How do they prosper? Is it just entertainment $$?

TV rights are a phenomenal amount of money for these sports, and sponsorship money tends to gravitate toward money as well (i.e., sponsors go after already successful entities).

[elhelmete]

At the risk of sounding like a naysayer I will add my thoughts. Overall (please don't take this personally) I think we often have a lot of suggestions that really aren't all that obvious of a slam dunk. Just because something isn't being done doesn't mean it should be tried. For instance:

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Why can't horse racing receive monster advertising rights from sponsors?

Sponsors follow existing money (i.e., success), that's why there are plenty of KYD and BC sponsors. "Everyday" sponsors have probably learned that the exposure they do get isn't paying off.

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Why can't the 1/16 pole/gate/jockey silks be decorated in advertisements/sponsorships?

I'd be in favor but how much $$ could realistically be in play? I'm in the media business and my strong opinion is the liquid $ generated by signage on a gate would be negligible.

You can put ads on silks in CA (pants) and I see Jeff Ruby and Cashcall all over the place. I wonder what that generates?

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Why can't horse racing be a sport where merchandise is sold in the millions of units?

Probably some fertile ground here, but it's not like the merch isn't available right now. Mostly on-track to be sure, and not centrally on line.

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Why can't a team of female riders race against a team of male riders & the series be shown on NBC live (with wagering encouraged)?

NBC wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. It's gimmicky and isn't done for other sports that get compared favorably to racing.

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Why can't a team of horses be grouped together, be branded with a flashy name (attached to a city) and be pitted against other regional groups of horses in stakes that have team standings and generate regional loyalty (like sports teams do)?

Form cycles, for one.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

TV rights are a phenomenal amount of money for these sports, and sponsorship money tends to gravitate toward money as well (i.e., sponsors go after already successful entities).

I agree with you but the spectators don't have an easy opportunity to make some $$ as in TB racing. And, why can't TB racing do similar attractions or something else? TB racing is also on TV.

I'm just thinking out loud. The three sports (and there are many others but maybe not to the same degree) have some similarities (i.e., spectator sports) with each other. In order to analyze something, you have to have a starting point.