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Old 11-03-2014, 10:24 AM   #61
traynor
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Originally Posted by HUSKER55
I have been searching opinions on the net and there are a lot of different programs out there. All geared to do one thing well, some do a lot of things reasonably well and etc.

I have come to the conclusion that anyone can do what they want on their terms, [comfort level]. We all learned to walk before we ran.

It boils down to chose your weapon and make your stand on your own terms.

One huge advantage is that the search for the right program for yourself sure does organize your awareness of what you are doing, what you want to do and what you want a program to do.

Regardless of your skill level there is a program for you. Confidence in one's numbers is a huge part of wagering.....well at least for me.


I agree wholeheartedly. The most basic component in the process of choosing a program is the simplest--is it intended to generate a profit, or is it intended to pass the time for hobbyists with the possibility--at some tracks on some days--of occasionally breaking even, showing a slight profit, or (more likely) reducing losses by formalizing the decision making process? That area was explored at length in another thread on software learning curves.

All of that comes down to one, single point. If your primary goal is to make a profit, you have to do it yourself. No one is going to hand you an application that generates consistent profit, because if it worked, they could make far more using it than selling it--all creative "explanations" of the motivation to sell it aside.

My premise is that the best thng for the racing industry is winners. Not even "whale grade winners." Just winners. I think that the 98% losing bettors would be happy to end each month a few hundred ahead, ecstatic to end each month a few thousand ahead, and off the scale to end each month with a profit "equivalent to a professional-level income." It is for that group that the suggestion to learn to write their own software is made.

The disappointment of expecting a hobby-grade software program to generate a profitable return can be substantial. And costly.
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:05 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by HUSKER55
where, (how), do you get the past performance data into a program? Maybe I should say how do I convert a pdf file from bris, or any place else, into any program.

I called Bris, DRF and Equibase and they all said any data downloads were for their programs only and that any other data was PDF only.

The lady at equibase said to contact them (via feedback) and perhaps they could make one one for a fee, but she thought the answer was no.

I am missing something here.

Will someone throw me a rope?


You got bad information regarding data being PDF only. I will speak to the Customer Service team. Send me an email estarr@equibase.com and I'll provide links, contact info for getting data in machine readable format.
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Old 11-03-2014, 12:38 PM   #63
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THANKS!
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Old 11-03-2014, 12:52 PM   #64
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Developing software and handicapping horses are two completely distinct things!

If you really want to learn how to program, my advice to you will be to not try to immediately apply it to handicapping and forget about getting any immediate benefit from it.

Programming is an extremely sophisticated craft, which requires years of dedicated study and professional exposure to be mastered. If you do not have the dedication, time and money to spend and (some) talent, my advice to you will be to just stay clear. If you really are serious about it, your best bet might be to attend college getting a CS degree (of course programming and CS are not exactly the same but it still is as close they get).. Hint: If you find the MIT course I posted above, difficult to follow, you probably need to forget about it and try something different...
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Old 11-03-2014, 03:46 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaLover
Developing software and handicapping horses are two completely distinct things!

If you really want to learn how to program, my advice to you will be to not try to immediately apply it to handicapping and forget about getting any immediate benefit from it.

Programming is an extremely sophisticated craft, which requires years of dedicated study and professional exposure to be mastered. If you do not have the dedication, time and money to spend and (some) talent, my advice to you will be to just stay clear. If you really are serious about it, your best bet might be to attend college getting a CS degree (of course programming and CS are not exactly the same but it still is as close they get).. Hint: If you find the MIT course I posted above, difficult to follow, you probably need to forget about it and try something different...



Programming is nothing more than creating a set of instructions for a machine to execute. It is--in its essence--no more complex, and no more difficult, than creating any other set of instructions.

The MIT course posted is not overly complex--just boring, ponderous, pompous, and dull. Anyone who believes that watching someone repeat some jingoist phrase--then write it on a blackboard and stand silently and patiently as if waiting for applause--is education needs to get out in the real world more.

Of course, that is just my own personal opinion. I have no patience whatsoever for dry, boring lectures that contain little or no real instruction. I will take a Malan or Sahami or Zelenski any day in preference to those who seem to be saying, "I suffered and bled for my little dripple of knowledge, and I want to be sure you suffer and bleed a sufficient amount as well." That isn't teaching. That is self-aggrandizement.

Watch the 11th lecture in the series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkPsD58nUIE

It is a real gem.
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Old 11-03-2014, 04:05 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traynor
Programming is nothing more than creating a set of instructions for a machine to execute. It is--in its essence--no more complex, and no more difficult, than creating any other set of instructions.


I do not agree.. What you describe here is more suitable to what is known as the compilation face.. Modern programming is not about creating set of instructions but about creating higher level abstractions and aggregates with no necessary link to the ultimate machine level constructs...
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Old 11-03-2014, 07:34 PM   #67
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UBERCAPPER,

your link came back undeliverable.

will you put up another one?

thanks
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:00 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaLover
I do not agree.. What you describe here is more suitable to what is known as the compilation face.. Modern programming is not about creating set of instructions but about creating higher level abstractions and aggregates with no necessary link to the ultimate machine level constructs...


In most cases, in most organizations and enterprises, that is not the work of programmers. Programmers do what they are told to do, in the way they are told to do it. Executives decide what they want. Business analysts and systems analysts create requirements. The programmers put their heads down and write the code they are instructed to write, in the way they are instructed to write it.

We are not discussing architecture. Just programming. The simple, uncluttered, uncomplicated, concrete task of writing sets of basic instructions to enable useful output. No abstractions needed.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:05 AM   #69
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It is often the case that doing things the same old way as everyone else is doing them is not especially productive. "Learning to program"--when viewed as some incredibly complex thing that requires immense effort to do (much as some seem to view handicapping horse races) is offputting. It should not be.

Programming--provided one truly understands what one is doing sufficiently to transmit that knowledge to another in an effective fashion--is relatively simple. Like handicapping horse races, it can grow more complex as one's knowledge and experience grows. Fortunately--unlike the opinions of some that decades of losing are mandatory before one can aspire to a goal as lofty as making a profit--there are competent instructors able to convey the basics of programming simply and elegantly.

www.buckysroom.org is one option. An even better option is:
http://www.fresherqueries.com/. If you don't recognize the names infosys and wipro, you are probably not in the IT field. Infosys has some of the best technical communicators available, and their training materials are designed to convey complex information in simple, understandable terms. The way technical instruction should be conveyed. Links to training materials are on the left of the main infosys page.

Alternate links:
http://www.fresherqueries.com/2014/...-tutorials.html

http://www.fresherqueries.com/searc...udy%20Materials
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:27 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traynor

Of course, that is just my own personal opinion. I have no patience whatsoever for dry, boring lectures that contain little or no real instruction. I will take a Malan or Sahami or Zelenski any day in preference to those who seem to be saying, "I suffered and bled for my little dripple of knowledge, and I want to be sure you suffer and bleed a sufficient amount as well." That isn't teaching. That is self-aggrandizement.

Watch the 11th lecture in the series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkPsD58nUIE

It is a real gem.


Having sampled both Malan and the George Costanza looking guy from MIT, I'd take Malan in a heartbeat.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:53 AM   #71
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Talking from my experience in putting together several development shops, I can assure you that even with very high standards of initial resume scanning and phone screenings, the vast majority of the programmers I have interviewed, came up light in skills, talent and knowledge.


More than this, if developing software was not such an extremely difficult process, this would had been directly reflected on the related pay rates, that are way more than the average, given the same level of typical skills, like educational level and years of experience.


As I said before, becoming an accomplished programmer, requires years of formal eduction, eternal reading and experimenting with new technologies, tons of real world professional experience and more than anything else talent.

An interesting related article from the top Computer Scientist and AI guru Peter Norvig can be found here:

Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years

http://norvig.com/21-days.html
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:54 AM   #72
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The main reason to learn to write code is that you don't deal with code monkeys.
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Old 11-04-2014, 01:03 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
The main reason to learn to write code is that you don't deal with code monkeys.


For the purposes of writing one's own app to do whatever one considers important or relevant in handicapping horse races, a couple of hours spent watching infosys intro programming presentations and Bucky's videos (typically 6-7 minutes long) will provide all one needs to get started.

A degree in rocket science is not needed, and in many cases could be a hindrance to insights that most without such degrees already have. We are talking about horse racing, not the orbital decay of space junk.

A weekend should be enough to get one up and coding. Especially if they take the time to download Visual Studio (with Visual Basic) and top it off with a few Microsoft tutorials.
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Old 11-04-2014, 02:31 PM   #74
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One of Dick Mitchell's early books had a bunch of basic language code in the back of the book. I found these very helpful in learning how to write code for horse racing -- especially when I wrote code for Brohammer's Modern Pace Handicapping.

If I can find some of my old code I will upload it so you can see it.
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Old 11-04-2014, 03:29 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by highnote
One of Dick Mitchell's early books had a bunch of basic language code in the back of the book. I found these very helpful in learning how to write code for horse racing -- especially when I wrote code for Brohammer's Modern Pace Handicapping.

If I can find some of my old code I will upload it so you can see it.


Thanks! That is a great idea! BASIC (if "meaningful variable names" are/were used) is an excellent way to learn to program. I may have some in a backup file from the old days somewhere. If I do, I will post it.
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