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09-29-2014, 01:49 PM
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#61
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mineshaft
Jim Rome just said on his show that he had no problem with Espinoza and his tactics. He said we are all big boys here.
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Yes, but if his horse got beat, would he still be as "ok" with it. Its easy to be ok with it after you still end up winning.
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09-29-2014, 01:58 PM
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Yes, but if his horse got beat, would he still be as "ok" with it. Its easy to be ok with it after you still end up winning.
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He kind if set it up by saying that they still won, I took it to mean that it didn't matter because his horse won anyway. Hollendorfer and Smith both had the same type attitude.
If his horse got beat because of these tactics I would expect his opinion to be different yes, who wouldn't?
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09-29-2014, 02:01 PM
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#63
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Rex says that the uncoupling is the "issue"
I want to know, is it the issue, or not.
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It's one issue. Funds wagered on him had no shot of winning as the trainer had no intent on winning.
The other issue is whether stablemates should ever be entered to be a pacemaker or any other help to another horse in the barn. Shouldn't all horses be entered for the right reason, which is to run to the best of their ability and hopefully win or get in the money?
It's two horses against one. Either a horse is good enough to win on its own merits or it's not.
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09-29-2014, 02:02 PM
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#64
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rex Phinney
He kind if set it up by saying that they still won, I took it to mean that it didn't matter because his horse won anyway. Hollendorfer and Smith both had the same type attitude.
If his horse got beat because of these tactics I would expect his opinion to be different yes, who wouldn't?
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They can afford to take this stance because it makes them look even better, that their horse won despite the tactics. Like you, I think he'd have a different opinion if it cost his horse the race.
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09-29-2014, 02:13 PM
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#65
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mineshaft
Jim Rome just said on his show that he had no problem with Espinoza and his tactics. He said we are all big boys here.
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Not his call. There are rules.
His opinion counts for nothing, other than he chose to take the high road.
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09-29-2014, 02:15 PM
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#66
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fager Fan
It's one issue. Funds wagered on him had no shot of winning as the trainer had no intent on winning.
The other issue is whether stablemates should ever be entered to be a pacemaker or any other help to another horse in the barn. Shouldn't all horses be entered for the right reason, which is to run to the best of their ability and hopefully win or get in the money?
It's two horses against one. Either a horse is good enough to win on its own merits or it's not.
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Sure, everyone should be trying to win. I just think that some feel if he's coupled, its ok to be the "rabbit" essentially.
Of course, another factor is that horsemen generally dont care too much about the public and bettors, its their game and their track and if the "idiots and addicts" want to bet, that's on them. As far as they are concerned, coupled or not coupled is the same thing because coupling doesn't change how they are going to train, ride or instruct to ride either horse.
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09-29-2014, 02:19 PM
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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In a sport that has questionable scruples with the general public we want horses being pushed to the 6th path on the first turn for no apparent reason................should help the sport letting that happen.
A rabbit has a front running style, taking them to the front does not hinder their best chance of winning.
I have no idea how going 5 wide 5 wide helped Sky Kingdom, thats what people are saying in this thread....mind boggling.
and of course classy connections are not going to say anything, after a win especially.
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09-29-2014, 02:21 PM
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,084
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Yes, but if his horse got beat, would he still be as "ok" with it. Its easy to be ok with it after you still end up winning.
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Baffert would have been "ok" with it too, if Shared Belief lost.
Good to know everyone is ok. The people that wagered on SB may not have been so ok at the 1/8th pole.
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09-29-2014, 02:52 PM
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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He is not appealing...........not a shock.
He would be asked in a court about the whole situation and if anyone else knew the strategy.
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09-29-2014, 03:09 PM
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#70
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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Baffert said that he was testing Fed Biz to see if he should run in the Classic.
Now he knows - if he runs, he will need TWO muggers instead of one.
Maybe Tonya Harding is looking for some work.
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09-29-2014, 03:11 PM
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Anaheim,California
Posts: 4,675
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
That's outrageous. There's nothing wrong with Espinoza and Baffert were doing, any more than it was wrong for Hedavar to be sent out to cook Dr. Fager and help Damascus.
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Thought that I was the only one old enough to recall Hedavar, the so called rabbit for mighty Damascus.  Often forgotten is that Hedavar was a very good horse in his own right, at one time holding a world record for a mile. Recall cashing, for what was for me at the time a very large bet, on him when he caught a field without Damascus, Dr. Fager, or Buckpasser, and was an easy wire to wire winner.
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09-29-2014, 03:27 PM
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#72
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,581
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What was Shared Beliefs Beyer?
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09-29-2014, 03:55 PM
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#73
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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101
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09-29-2014, 04:15 PM
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#74
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mineshaft
What was Shared Beliefs Beyer?
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You mean his "Scott Norwood figure"? 
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09-29-2014, 04:31 PM
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
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The irony is if Espinoza's horse would have gone on to win, there would of not even been a DQ. If he would of hit the board and not faded badly there would not be a suspension.
Probably got to admit, that if this was the 3rd race of 5,000 claimers on a Thursday afternoon, no suspensions would have been given.
I have seen horses run "balls to the wall" in route races laughing the entire time knowing that the horse would fade badly. Also two jockeyes going crazy on the front knowing either one would hit the board. If I know this they have to know it too.
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