anyone been involved in a partnership?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I am assuming -possibly incorrectly - that this is about wagering partnerships as well as horse ownerships.

I have been involved in two betting partnerships.

Both worked out very well.

IMHO, you have to begin with an clear understanding of what each party is going to be responsible for doing. This includes not only during the start-up phase but also as the partnership and business matures.

I think that second part is where it usually breaks down, just as with any other business.

Most biz partnerships have a money-man and a worker bee. During the start-up phase the worker bee is thrilled to have the partner's money to give him a chance at building something.

The problem comes when that "something" is actually built and generating profit. At this point the worker bee says, "I am doing most of the work! I deserve more," and the seeds of upcoming problems are sown.


Dave

Reminds me of contracting in IT. Why am I making $47 an hour, when IBM is farming me out at $245 an hour to the customer? 'Cause it's "fixed", that's why.

I've set up a couple of betting "partnerships" for the big race days like the Derby and Breeder's Cup, but wouldn't want to do it long-term EXCEPT where all partners were relatively equal in their contributions and shares of the profits (or losses). And that would be difficult to do.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Dave.

As for horse owning partnerships, I could see that being fun, but in the tight market of today's racing world, I gotta believe the graft and corruption are worse than ever. You'd have to find some parties that you could trust, and that probably means you'd need to take out your own trainer's license.....

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

Good,bad ugly?

anyone have partnerships between members on here?

I've owned horses on my own and run a few small partnerships....my advice would be to steer clear of it unless you know the person/persons running them very, very, very well. I have known people who have gotten involved in partnerships with people they didn't know very well and it almost always goes poorly and ends bad. Whatever you decide to do, best of luck!

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

Ok here's a another question..if I wanted to get up in running in something low level at a lower grade track what am I looking at before I even think about getting involved..10k? 20k

Everyone is different and have different motives for wanting to get involved and varying expectations, so I think it's tough to give particularly good advice without knowing what you're all about.

In a generic sense, if you wanted to jump in with nickel claimers, then if you want partners, try hitting up your pals. Alternatively, if you can get turned on to a trainer at a particular circuit (it's pretty uncommon for a guy to tell a new owner he'd rather not take his money) and have some faith in him/her, he may have established owners that likewise prefer to claim with the risk spread a bit and with a co-owner. Make sure that you and that guy see things mostly similarly, or are at least capable of compromise, if either/or plan to be the type that want to give advice on campaigning the horse.

My only message-between-the-lines is that I think partnerships can be a good way for a real hands-off outsider to get to show up on race day and get a box and have some fun. At the higher levels especially, this seems ideal for some people.

At the lower levels... if you want a real taste of ownership, probably some good and some bad, find a trainer you trust at a track you want to run at and tell him/her what you want. If (s)he's any count at all, the individual will probably fall all over themselves trying to help you out - while also throwing in a few caution signs, the pitfalls, the realities - someone that wants to train for you but wants you to know there's no guarantees. The guy that's making guarantees is the one to view skeptically.

Good luck. Enjoy it.

[shank]

I've managed a successful claiming partnership in Chicago. We've been in business since 1993. In that time we've bought and sold 300 horses give or take. Of all those horses I only regret losing one. The key to our success has been sticking to a few rules. The most important has been getting out immediately if I wouldn't re-purchase the horse today for the same price.. I've been able to avoid falling in love with any horse,which is the only reason we're still in business. I've lost partners along the way who've second guessed my thinking and re-purchased partnership horses on their own after they'd been claimed away from us.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

I've had the same partner for 30 years. he picks out the horses at the sales, brakes and trains them, i put up all the money. i made money for about 26 out of the 30 years. i stopped buying horses 2 years ago because i don't think i can make money any more at this.

the good part about being involved in this business is that it helped me at the betting window's.

And he is a solid horseman.

[Mineshaft]

Be leary of trainers who bottom feed which means they will
buy cheap horses out the pasture and then mark up the price
so they can make a profit.

[lamboguy]

if anyone is serious in getting involved in racing, i would focus in on New Jersey Breds, or racing in New Jersey. there seems to be some big things coming there and there are plenty of racing fans in that state.

[green80]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

I was at one one time. It was great way for the racing manager to take everyone's money and play like it was his own.

He bought a $15,000 horse, owned it a week, and sold it to the partnership for $70,000 (without really sharing that's what he was doing) We also spent about the first 9 months with all the money going to only the racing manager or his attorney buddy. Very little spent on vet bills, shoeing etc. Yet all the money was still being spent.

My advice is to get in touch with a trainer directly, alot of times they have horses in their barn or at sales they want to buy and they will take you in directly with others. Especially the smaller barns are looking for owners, tell them what you have to spend and that you want to know when something comes up. You will surprised how quick they take to you if you are serious and stay out of their way.

Basically the trainer is running the partnership, all the financial aspects of it are then much more clearly laid out, they will have their day rate, vet and medication bills and entry fees, and that's about it. You also end up with the one guy in charge who SHOULD BE, the trainer.

Get rid of the middle man (the racing "manager"), 9 times out 10 that I've seen they are crooks.

that sums it up about the best. If you are interested in getting into racing get a few of your buddies and form your own partnership. Get a no name trainer to make you a deal on training. It would be best to buy or claim your own horse. If you have any problem with the way things are going change trainers fast, there are a lot out there that would love to have your business. I have owned and trained horses for over 30 years and I have learned a lot about what not to do. This can be profitable is handled right.

[Mineshaft]

Also do not select trainers who are 5/122 in 2014 please.

[magwell]

Find a trainer that wins and is willing to put his own money in with yours, even if it's only 20% of the cost of the horses and claim don't buy private unless you can vet the horses with a vet you trust.......

[forced89]

Originally Posted by green80

If you are interested in getting into racing get a few of your buddies and form your own partnership. Get a no name trainer to make you a deal on training. It would be best to buy or claim your own horse. If you have any problem with the way things are going change trainers fast, there are a lot out there that would love to have your business. I have owned and trained horses for over 30 years and I have learned a lot about what not to do. This can be profitable is handled right.

This is exactly what a buddy and I did many moons ago. We made a deal with a relative obscure trainer at Ellis Park to claim a horse for us and progressed from there. IMO there is no way to learn but by getting your feet wet on the cheap.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by magwell

Find a trainer that wins and is willing to put his own money in with yours, even if it's only 20% of the cost of the horses and claim don't buy private unless you can vet the horses with a vet you trust.......

Find a trainer who is well liked and respected by his peers, those are the trainers that seem to get the low down on claimers and have high in the money percentages first off the claim.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

if anyone is serious in getting involved in racing, i would focus in on New Jersey Breds, or racing in New Jersey. there seems to be some big things coming there and there are plenty of racing fans in that state.

Revenue generated from a casino in the Meadowlands will fuel purses in NJ for both the standardbreds and the thoroughbreds. The sports wagering monies revenue are still unknown at this time to how it will help NJ racing.

[Stoleitbreezing]

My first partnership was the worst experience.
I've been a horseplayer for almost 20 years now and always wanted to get involved in a partnership and see what the experience was like on the other side of the fence. Let me tell you the phrase "You get what you pay for" could not be any more true.

My first partnership experience came about when I read a post from another member of a horse racing game we play together about a partnership that involved a small buy in that would not have any monthly assessments going forward. This was a big mistake; I didn't do my research of course and thought that the small buy in ($59 per 1% for a total of $118 dollars for my 2%) would be a cheap price to pay to own a part of a racehorse. The worst partnership to be involved in without a doubt, is XXXXXXX aka XXXXXXX.com with trainer XXXXX XXXXX. If you get involved with him, be prepared to throw your money away and receive the worst customer service or updates about your horse. He's nice and willing to talk to you to start, but once you become a partner, all you get is a few words on a website or rude comments in an email.

Over a period of 13 months the horse I was a partner in never raced and had one official published workout. In what was supposed to be a “no expenses ever” partnership 60% Trainer 40% partner split, was instead scrapped for a 50/50 split with day money based on shares owned due to “physical maturity” issues and lingering foot problems for the 2YO Gelding. XXXXX went on and on about how the horse was a May foal and that he’s not ready yet for one reason or another. His 3 YO season came about with an on again off again vague report of a lingering foot issue despite the fact the horse was not breezing officially and having published works.

The communication from the trainer was basically nonexistent or a flat out lie. On his website if he did post about the horse it would usually be something like the following "He's coming along, has a nice coat" or it would be the more troubling "Has a foot issue, will miss a week" then the horse would go back to “growing…thriving…” This continued for several months.

Becoming increasingly frustrated, I still sent in my share of the monthly assessment via paypal despite not being told anything of value about the horse and his path to the racetrack. I decided to email XXXX to find out if the horse was hurt or would ever run. He proceeded to tell me how much I didn’t know about the business and how expensive everything was but never gave me a true answer as to why the horse wasn’t having official workouts. When it became clear I wasn’t going to get a clear answer from him and having lost any kind of trust in the partnership I had no choice but to stop paying my assessment which was $20 a month. XXXXX made it clear my money was nothing to him and to drop out if it was “not affordable” lol.

Don't be fooled by the world best 2% trainer of the bush leagues. All his stock he gets via private sale or otherwise are obtained for free or a nominal charge. No doubt arriving hurt or sick then sold to his partners as 5K stock.



I've since joined another partnership HorsePlayers Racing Club. The communication, and overall experience are worth the extra money. I would recommend HRC to anyone who wants to get involved.

[onefast99]

As in life you get what you pay for. It's never good to hear some of these partnerships are not as good as advertised. I always went the solo route and yes I wish at times I had partners when the bills come in!