2014 BC Classic picture

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by Irish Boy

I didn't mean to suggest that I fault them for sticking with what works, especially since Wise Dan seems to have lost a step or two from his best.

Yea, he does seems to have lost a step. Switching surfaces and adding 2 panels to his distance might be too much for the old boy. Although, he'd get a lot of action at the window, I believe, seeing how weak this field is looking.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by Redboard

Yea, he does seems to have lost a step. Switching surfaces and adding 2 panels to his distance might be too much for the old boy. Although, he'd get a lot of action at the window, I believe, seeing how weak this field is looking.

I'd reserve the term "weak" until after we see how Shared Belief takes to Santa Anita next week. We already know he can cover 10F easy, all that's left is to see if he likes the dirt at Santa Anita as much as Los Al.

He is after all undefeated, he has beaten older horses and he is the 2YO champ.

Wise Dan's connections have taken about as many chances as Zenyatta's. Why they don't catch more heat I'll never know.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

I'd reserve the term "weak" until after we see how Shared Belief takes to Santa Anita next week. We already know he can cover 10F easy, all that's left is to see if he likes the dirt at Santa Anita as much as Los Al.

He is after all undefeated, he has beaten older horses and he is the 2YO champ.

Wise Dan's connections have taken about as many chances as Zenyatta's. Why they don't catch more heat I'll never know.

Good question.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

I'd reserve the term "weak" until after we see how Shared Belief takes to Santa Anita next week. We already know he can cover 10F easy, all that's left is to see if he likes the dirt at Santa Anita as much as Los Al.

He is after all undefeated, he has beaten older horses and he is the 2YO champ.

Wise Dan's connections have taken about as many chances as Zenyatta's. Why they don't catch more heat I'll never know.

Wise Dan's races are still open company.

Zenyatta got credit for being better than all horses male or female, without having the same campaign that a male would have.

I'm sure I'll open up a lot of bad by typing that.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Wise Dan's races are still open company.

Zenyatta got credit for being better than all horses male or female, without having the same campaign that a male would have.

I'm sure I'll open up a lot of bad by typing that.

Zenyatta's connections to a lot of heat (and rightfully so) for running her in the same races every year beating all the same opponents. Wise Dan has basically done the same thing. I know he has won alot of Graded races but some of the horses he has beaten it's almost embarrassing to call him a two time HOTY.

He is running only at a mile and only on grass. Maybe in Europe that would qualify as him beating the best of the best, but in the states we know 90% of the best horses end up on dirt, I guess it would just be nice to see him try it every so often.

I'm not discounting his ability at what he does best, I'm just pointing out his connections are sort of pigeon holing him the same way Zenyatta's owners did. Zenyatta's owners caught hell for it, yet Wise Dan's connections have a pair of HOTY awards????

After he had won all those mile turf races at CD and Woodbine what would it hurt to try say the Pacific Classic? Maybe try a turf race in Europe? Noone would hold it against him if he lost, and he is a gelding so there is no stud fee to protect. Even now he has danced all the dances, maybe lost a step to the point he may not win the mile this year, so give something else a go, maybe the 12F turf or the Classic. They have absolutely NOTHING to lose.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Zenyatta's connections to a lot of heat (and rightfully so) for running her in the same races every year beating all the same opponents. Wise Dan has basically done the same thing. I know he has won alot of Graded races but some of the horses he has beaten it's almost embarrassing to call him a two time HOTY.

He is running only at a mile and only on grass. Maybe in Europe that would qualify as him beating the best of the best, but in the states we know 90% of the best horses end up on dirt, I guess it would just be nice to see him try it every so often.

I'm not discounting his ability at what he does best, I'm just pointing out his connections are sort of pigeon holing him the same way Zenyatta's owners did. Zenyatta's owners caught hell for it, yet Wise Dan's connections have a pair of HOTY awards????

After he had won all those mile turf races at CD and Woodbine what would it hurt to try say the Pacific Classic? Maybe try a turf race in Europe? Noone would hold it against him if he lost, and he is a gelding so there is no stud fee to protect. Even now he has danced all the dances, maybe lost a step to the point he may not win the mile this year, so give something else a go, maybe the 12F turf or the Classic. They have absolutely NOTHING to lose.

Wise Dan lost by a head to Ron The Greek in 2012 and won the Clark 2011 ,
both on the dirt . He is as game a pro as there is IMO .

[menifee]

Sad to see no Palace Malice, MMM, Game on Dude or Will Take Charge. Lea has gone missing. Shared Belief might be even money if he romps in the Awesome Again.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by nijinski

Wise Dan lost by a head to Ron The Greek in 2012 and won the Clark 2011 ,
both on the dirt . He is as game a pro as there is IMO .

He is a very game horse for sure. Probably he was capable of much more than they ever let him do.

For example in 2012 I'll Have Another won as many Grade 1 races by the end of May as Wise Dan did the entire year.

The best horses in America run on dirt, Wise Dan hasn't won on dirt in 3 years. It's not a knock on the horse but rather his handling. They need a little more D Wayne Lukas and Jess Jackson in their blood.

[letswastemoney]

Wise Dan can sprint on dirt too. Ran 3rd in the 2010 BC Sprint.

[YT="Y-qp_D5cidI"]Y-qp_D5cidI[/YT]

[tanner12oz]

Big z didn't like to ship out of cali

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

Big z didn't like to ship out of cali

Please.
Let's not go there again .

Her connections made the shipping decisions.
Zenyatta ran fine races at Oaklawn, and was
half a head away from immortality at Churchill.

Those are the facts.

[classhandicapper]

At his best, Wise Dan was versatile. But IMO turf is/was his best surface.

I know it isn't cast in stone that he's slipped a notch because you can find reasons in each of his starts this year to suggest either the trip or a layoff didn't allow him to show his best, but I don't buy it. I thought he slipped a hair last year. So I was already expecting him to slip further this year.

IMO, if he ran in the Classic he would get buried. If the Turf Mile comes up strong and a few top Euro's show up, he's going to have to do better than he's done so far this year to even hit the board in that race.

Wise Dan is on my short list of horses that should be retired gracefully very soon. He's an elite US turf champion and should go out on top as a winner and not run until he's getting beat by horses that couldn't get a sniff of him at his best. I don't see the upside, but I do see the downside and the risks of going further UNLESS he shows his best stuff in the Shadwell.

[horses4courses]

Things just got much easier for Wise Dan to win another BC Mile.

Racing Post ‏@RacingPost 1m
Teddy Grimthorpe said: “Kingman will need ongoing treatment which will rule out the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes and also the Breeders' Cup."

[letswastemoney]

If Moreno defects, Bayern would have a shot in the Classic. I wouldn't touch either of them if they both start though.

[Rex Phinney]

I'd also say Majestic Harbor has to be towards the bottom of the list for me. I was at the Gold Cup and that race just totally fell into his lap. I can't see him winning a race of this caliber.